Zir'an's BBS Problem


#1

You all know Zir’an, Lyonar general, that heals any minion for 3 health as a BBS. I hope that noone will question that Argeon is just a better choice for a general. If you dont agree here are a few arguments:

1.You dont need a setup for his BBS to be good, while Zir’an needs to have a damaged STRONG minion because if your minion has 1 attack there is no point in healing him outside of his effect.
2. Your BBS does not threaten your enemy as you dont bring any offensive potential to the table, while argeon does.
3. Your BBS suffers from any silence ability and Argeons one may buff your silenced minion to a point where your opponent needs a silence again.
4.Zir’an needs a high health and high attack minions to function,which can be used by argeon to a greater result. Only minions that benefit Zir’an more than they do Argeon are “Whenever anyone is healed” cards. But due to it being hard to get a damaged minion to survive(as it gets damaged to be removed) you end up using cards like healing mystic instead of your BBS in order to trigger these effects, meaning that your BBS does not matter.
5.As Zir’an’s BBS is not good in early game you would guess that it works in late game, but it does not. Any other BBS works better than yours in late game as you dont remove or play something, while abbysian for example may prock their deathwatch synergy or minion buffs, or in cassyva’s case damage some distant minions and get shadowcreep synergy. Vanar can just finish you off with their BBS or play bulkier minions and so on.
6. Your BBS does not fulfill BBS role. BBSs are something you play when you have spare mana or when you use it to get tempo advantage. Both of these are not achieved by Zir’an’s BBS as if you have strong damaged minion stiking you are already wining.

The only reason why Zir’an sees more play than Starhorn is because she is concidered the weakest general and people like trying to make something as weak as Zir’an work. Trust me, ive played nearly 500 games with many different Zir’an decks and did my best when I HAVENT use my BBS.
I really think that Zir’an needs to be rebalanced or changed totally, and i am here to hear your thoughts.


#2

I agree with all the criticisms (except maybe #6), but I’m not sure I agree with the analysis. I think Zir’An’s problem isn’t so much the BBS, which can be very powerful under certain condtions. Instead I think the cards that work with her play style are still underpowered overall. While I could maaaaybe get on board with a clause like “when this BBS targets a full-health minion, give it +2 Health instead” or something similar, I really think the cards around her are the problem.

4 Health is too vulnerable, and there are no big finisher minions that work especially well with her. Argeon’s great because he’s supported by an amazing cast of minions, but they all work better with him than with Zir’An. If she got access to a synergistic 5- or 6-drop I do believe we might see that change, and even changes to cards like Sterope or Sunriser don’t seem overblown to me.

I agree that Zir’An’s BBS is weakest of them all.


#3

Can we wait for the expansion that is supposed to interact with bbs before we start comparing?


#4

The point im making is that her BBS is the most relying on synergy( or even the only one), which doesnt make her BBS a BBS other generals have as its more like a mana vortex - a card that requires you to play another card to be good, which is not what other BBSs do.


#5

So you are saying that Zir’an is ok to be the weakest general since the introduction of the BBS because it might get better in a month or two with an expansion?


#6

No Im saying let’s wait the 2 or so weeks to see what cards they bring out. A few cards can change a “bad” bbs into a good one just like that. Oh and you didnt answer my question… Not that I did t answer yours but I did ask.


#7

Best use of her BBS I’ve found is to keep a Sojourner alive for a couple more card draws.

Ruby Rifter and Dank Nemesis work well for late game minions but she…just…can’t. …generate…tempo…


#8

Even if there are cards that synergyse with her BBS, BBS should not be dependent on synergy.


#9

Why does a bbs need to have immediate value? For a faction that plays sticky minions heal is a great bbs. There is always gonna be a tier of bbs unless you want them all the same. Having a 1 mana spell. That combos with some thing or things is way more important then just solo value imo. But I think you just want to argue imo.


#10

I have said this before, but the simplest way to make Zir’an better is to change her BBS to “Restore 3 health to a minion, or 1 health to your general.” It is better and more versatile, but not overpowered.


#11

Its not like the ammount restored to your general matters. The thing that is dangerous with being able to heal your general is guaranteed synergy with heal cards so if you are allowing your general to be healed better make it full 3 health heal.


#12

I’m more then happy to discourse on her bbs but anything can happen in a month. I would not have thought I would be saying President trump but here I am. I wouldn’t have thought one cards I shizmer expansion would be so good it was played in every deck from abys to vet until it was nerfed.


#13

So make it so healing the general does not trigger those effects. The idea of healing her is to let her take more damage in the late game.


#14

Its not only from balance perspective. Having that ingame would be unclear and confusing.


#15

So rephrase it to be less confusing. The new ability would still be more usefull.


#16

This just isn’t a good meta for Zir’an to live in. Right now, minions are either killed immediately or they are ignored. leaving few opportunities for the BBS to trigger. We’ll see what new cards get introduced, and then I think we can all have a better idea of how strong this BBS can be.


#17

Come on then. Give me something [quote=“eftaisio, post:15, topic:6540”]
less confusing
[/quote]

Its impossible to do that and thats why this zir’an ability is not ingame


#18

As it is, it will never be a good meta for Zir’an if her synergy cards are not good enough. And BBS should not be dependent on synergy no matter what. Even kaleos’s one is not dependant on specific cards to work, as it just gives ANY minion more reach.


#19

Yes Zir’an requires a deck specifically made around her and healing in general to really benefit from her BBS, and a swarm deck with weak cheap critters would not benefit from her BBS.

But no I don’t think it’s a problem, I have a lot of fun playing (and I have a good winrate in diamond) with Zir’an. I do not have problems keeping minions alive (sure, sometimes it’s the 4th I summon that sticks, but that’s fine, sometimes it’s the first), which makes me wonder whether you summon them in safe locations.

Some generals are more straightforward and some are more complex, and that variety in generals is great.

I think it’s great we have one general that heals their minions.


#20

Your minions are NOT supposed to be in safe locations. They are from Lyonar faction and their plase is in the middel of a combat. And if you would pay some attantion, you win those matches, where you rarely use your BBS.