Why Unrotated needs to be the primary mode IMO


#1

Lemme start with how I found duelyst. It was a (insert weather here) day, and I was bored. I decided to look for Final Fantasy Tactics multiplayer, online. Very specific I know. I searched for a few hours, and found a website called something like “dueling grounds” about FFT. Checked it out, then went to bed. Next morning, I looked up “duelist” and the steam page for dooly came up. I was ecstatic. I had found a game where I could customize my army with hundreds of cards, and make my deck. Not yours, not anyone elses. But mine. It was my personally created army. Unique because of my own inefficient combos that I thought up. It was perfect.

Then everything changed when the Thanatos Nation attacked.

Suddenly, this thing drops in front of us. This disgusting thing that kills our creativity, cripples our archetypes, and makes things less fun.
This.
image
(ignore the text, just look at the name)

This upsets me. The playerbase isn’t big enough to do have 2 seperate ques, one for rotated and one not. If you guys are worried about new players being intimidated by all the cards, don’t be. Shadowverse has had more expansions than I can count, and they get new players every day. They (afaik) have no rotation! Don’t even get me started on physical TCG’s… But the reason shadowverse can get players in, is because they get a bunch of free stuff crammed down their throat. Oh, you completed the mandatory tutorial? Have 5 boosters! Oh, you logged in? Have a booster! Oh, you won 2 games? Have a Booster! Constantly. Then they have events for more free stuff. If you want more players, don’t alienate the ones you have already, just make it more newbie friendly.

Thanks for reading, have a good day.


#2

Totally agree, they should restructure the daily rewards, rewards for challengues. Create new challengues, or new modes to reward the new players, the boss challegue is ok but why not create some events for season? or month?


#3

Agree with your post but you don’t really answer the question in your topic title so your bascially off topic in your own topic.


#4

I did,

The playerbase isn’t big enough to do have 2 seperate ques


#5

Shadowverse is also doing set rotations, its the only logical way for a card game to go. Making the card pool smaller will help improve player base, people wont feel so intimidated with such a large pool of cards. On top of that, no more stale formats! which i feel is the best thing about set rotations.


#6

While I know stale formats aren’t fun, I think that having more cards in our metaphorical toolbox would make the format less stale. If we would have noticed prophet of white palm sooner, mantra wouldn’t have gone so far I think. More cards makes the game less stale.

In the Final Fantasy TCG, (look it up it’s small) the meta isn’t defined for more than a weke at a time, as if something is good, they find a counter. I feel like once we have more cards, we’ll find more diverse metas simply because if they make a bunch of archetypes, a few have to stick and be good, right?


#7

Shadowverse is also introducing set rotations, so your example does not really fit. However, if every card game out there is doing set rotations, it likely means there are very good reasons to implement them.

A few of them:

  1. Simplify the life of new players avoiding a high entry barrier into the game
  2. Simplify the creation of new cards without breaking the balance
  3. Keep the meta game fresh by pushing out cards which are objectively hard to replace

Can all this be done without rotations? Maybe, but rotations are by far the simplest and most established way to achieve all this. I think CPG did a very reasonable choice and I was expecting this since I started playing…

Can we improve the implementation of rotations? Sure, for instance the lack of creep support when Shimzar rotates out is concerning, but this can be fixed by adding more cards to the core set and by introducing new cards


#8

You still didnt talk about the price of legendaries in shadowverse. Wich is ridiculous. Liquefy a rare=20 craft a legendary= 3500


#9

What can I say? I agree.

Unrotated to be the primary mode seems good, or alternatively have 2 identical ladders, one unrotated one rotated, and check 3 months later which is played more.


#10

I was suckered back in with the new expansion on its way, and of course they wait to drop this awful bombshell the day before the patch, after everyone has bought into it. If I had known they panned on making half of all my cards useless at some point i would have dropped this and never looked back. I really hope they make this right because if not, I’m done. I was looking for a game that was BETTER than the other greed, grubby TCGs, not JUST LIKE THEM.


#11

Someone had to say it and I’m glad you did. The timing was deliberate. You wait for everyone who is going to to buy the preorder bundle so you minimize people leaving. Who’s going to leave a game they just dropped 40 bucks on, right?

I’m not even against the rotation system but I still notice stuff like this.


#12

Its moves like this that had me leave in the first place, this isn’t the first time they’ve done it and as it stand it won’t be the last. I guess CP and Bandai just plan on using shady practices to suck the money out of people for as long as they can before people get sick of their shit. Or who knows, maybe it will just keep working, reinforcing that being underhanded and shitty to your playerbase is the best way to get ahead.


#13

Please CPG we don’t want rotations in the first place. Atleast give us support for what we want to play and don’t force us to play a format we don’t want.


#14

Rotation is a bad idea specific to this game, because there are so few pieces, but they interact in such crazy ways. The choice to redesign the core, and merge sets is probably among the best- but rotation systems rely on having not only a robust coreset, but also robust expansions on the regular- where we’re looking at 12-ish faction cards in a big expansion.

I don’t disagree with removing cards from the ladder environment- but the consequences of doing so need to be handled in a way far less arbitrary than “these cards are 2 years old.” In Duelyst’s case, I think a rotating banlist is quite possibly the best option (using player polls, and never keeping the same card banned for 2 weeks straight.) It gives us meta flexibility, it gives us intrigue, it gives us data.


#15

It’s not ideal, for sure.

It could have been a lot worse, say a day before the next expansion comes out.

This time I do not really mind the timing that much. I mean, I get that they want to coincide it with some big update, and the BN expansion was already too full.

But yes, it could have been done like 6 weeks ago at the start of the spoiler season, that would have been far better.


#16

It’s business, guys, it’s not a scam or anything. There are tons of players out there that are concerned about the “game is dying” thing and keep talking about CPG trying to get easy money before killing the game. And now that CPG is doing a brave yet objectively needed move aimed at improving the future of Duelyst we have complaint threads about set rotations. (I’m not talking about you, I think you are a very nice and constructive community member.)

Some players will leave the game for sure after this announcement, but many other players will find it easier to jump into the game. Most players will complain, but end up playing anyway. Getting some cash out of the former class of players is business, there is no broken promises as opposed to other events in the past. I’m all with CPG this time


#17

This is what I’m trying to say, no rotations, but we could ban problem cards every month or so to keep the meta fresh.

Since you guys didn’t like my shadowverse example, here’s a better one. Yugioh. No rotation, over 7000 cards. How do they manage to keep things fresh? Banlist. Put key cards down to 1 or 2 copies to reduce consistency, or ban them altogether. The interesting thing is that the old cards may become busted when a new mechanic comes along, so they ban them accordingly. Here’s an example of that.Grinder Golem.
image
.A card that came out many years ago.
It was only played in the memiest of decks, up until a new mechanic that could use these tokens came along. Suddenly it became broken with its new interactions. Konami handled it accordingly. Same with this guy :


He was put at one copy per deck recently. This is what CPG should do. Keep things fresh by taking out problem cards. Maybe not bans, but nerfs, since this is a digital game.


#18

shadowverse has set rotation now… that may be why


#19

Do the Devs have any opinion on this?

Was this Bandai’s idea to milk us for more money?

@ThanatosNoa

and is there any way we could convince you not to do this?


#20

We all have opinions on this.

This was not a BNEA decision.

Not my decision, nor place to say/do anything but the news lads!
(And the news is: Core Set and Rotation Updates)