Duelyst Forums

Why is Fault Hated?

It’s the perfect control deck and if it were up to me I’d make every other control deck just as consistent. It’s the only control deck that’s not rock paper scissors match up based and that’s how every other control deck should be.

Do hate people hate Fault because it’s the only deck that can punish magmar and literally every one on here abused magmar to get S-rank? (which is also why they defend it so religiously despite it being the most poorly desgined faction)


If anything I would expect the forums to be the place with the least concentration of Mag abusers, the meme is delete magmar
Besides, you would only have to look towards other faction mains also disliking it to come to a less grossly narrow conclusion

Tier 0 decks are always always hated no matter what simply because they provide no meaningful dialogue against non-tier 0 decks so you can dismiss most of the hate as that
Nevertheless you could ask around good players on why they also hate Fault, each will have each their own slightly different complaints on why its top tier due to imbalance rather than fairness in skill
Because even a non-rock-paper-scissors deck can be badly designed

Not too ironically, I do agree Fault is one of the healthiest concepts to win with- this is much better than answer or die stupidity
And the occupy-middle-collumn strategy is one of the healthiest counterplays possible as you can do it without having to build your deck around it
But the presence of Fury and Kha make the healthy strategy actually lose you the game, thats not too great a design if you ask me


I do not think anyone really hates fault, allthough Vet in general is overturned, and fault is one of the big top four meta bullies.

Now Khanum Kha on the other hand, largely in part due to fault, is a card worth hating. It causes incredibly unfair games, creates massive Rock Paper Scissors effects, and removes the natural checks and balances like artifacts and Vath that otherwise keep the other two big decks in check (Rag and Ziran.) Meanwhile Vet does great against the last big deck (Wanderer)but struggles a bit vs the other two.

Fault is very well designed. Kha and to a lesser extent Rae are a train wreck.

(Also Magmar is well designed, but Rag is by far the most overtuned of the bunch. Burn decks, Wanderer, and Kha are the bad designs.)


Not sure I agree with that. Fault/Kha are both good design (maybe not healthy though) but because both exists it makes them both un-fun to play against imo. Although I blame Rae for making Fault worse, more than Kha, since it enables Fault to be played at 5 mana (with mana tile) or at 6 to instantly get Dervishes.


Hmm… where else do we see that?

Plasma Storm!
Oh ok I’ll play minions with higher attack so I don’t instantly lose to a single card!
Homeostatic Rebuke!
Oh well fine I’ll just hand pick minion that has higher than 3 attack but not too high so they die anyways
Lava Lance! Natural Selection! Makantor! Lava Slasher!

Or another gavorite of mine
Turn one - Magmar player opens with minion 200/500 “Opening gambit:Your general is invulnerable and has 500 attack”
Oh wow I guess considering how beafy these minions are I should have the option to kite them!
Oh wow well I guess if I can’t fight them in close range and I can’t even run from them at least rely on my win con…

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I have never defended magmar in this post or recent history, perhaps never ever, not sure why you reply with this instead of anything else

maybe a mag hate thread was the objective all along, misleading title


Fault/Rae existed for a long time before Kha and was never an issue. And conversely fault/kha existed for awhile without Rae and was still a problem.

Fault has loads of counterplay. Kha has basicly zero and turns an otherwise fair position focused archetype into a board ignoring/field wiping/otk problem.

Even Kha aside though Vet along side the other top three are just overtuned tier zeros and that is the primary reason for hate.


Kha doesn’t OTK you.
It’s funny that you say you don’t like the field wiping of Kha when it takes two turns to set up meanwhile Magmar features multiple field wiping cards.
And before you say “It’s conditional!” those conditions combined rarely leave any room. Like let’s say you bet me that if I flip tails I owe you 15 bucks but if I flip heads I owe you 12 bucks. Yeah sure it’s conditional but you’re winning no matter what either way.

Ok now you’re making very little sense. You’re saying you don’t like rock paper scissors but it’s totally fine if it works in favor of magmar? There’s no issues if Vaath auto wins against decks he counters but it’s such a big problem if Kha auto wins against Vaath? Oh please. Your bias is showing.
I could easily make the same argument that Kha is necessary to keep Vaath in check.

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To be honest I never saw Fault/Rae before Kha, I only came across it as the meta deck we know today.

The card does, but the deck surrounding it often doesn’t feel like it. Although I’m not going to die on my sword to defend that point.

I feel like that’s due to sand tiles more than anything else. Having played against someone who uses Kha in a non-fault deck, while it can feel frustrating to play against, I feel like its more fair and easier to counter when Fault isn’t around or sand tiles. Still feels bad when it wipes the board though.

Probably for most, personally I don’t like them because of how often I’ve played against them and how boring those matches are. I think against the top 4 decks make over 60% of my matches since the last patch. Which is crazy, since I don’t really play any of those 4 decks.


One wins the game, the other buys time. One does have counterplay, the other very little.

Magmars AOE is linear and stuff like 4/5s and the like utterly wreck their game plan, as well as something as simple as not overextending. Rush without flying can be completely countered with good positioning and or provoke.

Meanwhile Vet is top tier, Non Rag Mag (Rag is even more overtuned than Vet but ironically more often then not skips the cards you are complaining about.) is not.

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Bruh, have you seen how many ‘delete Magmar’ memes get posted here?

As for Kha, I haven’t played too much of kha with Fault, but it is still a solid card in any mid Ranged Dervish-based strategy. With some sand generation, it’s basically a rush AOE minion with a fair bit of stickiness. Greater payof than Makantor, but needs setup. Strong, but balanced. With Fault though, it invalidates any deck that increases a general’s attack


Field wiping is field wiping. The only difference is that in the case of Fault+Kha the player is left with 5 exhuming sand tiles and in the case of Magmar they are left with a bunch of beefy minions or 2 thousand eggs. You will die to both. You will lose to both.

Ok the enemy general moves two squares forward. Plays rush minion that can also move two squares forward. Sure it’s not flying but it sure does cover a lot of space now doesn’t it?
The idea of “positioning” or basically the term I like to use “running away all game from magmar” doesn’t really work if they can catch up to you with a single minion. You can position against frenzy. You can position against sun bloom and aperions claim but you can’t position against rush that’s ridiculous.
Also a lot of decks don’t run provoke…
If Magmar is big and slow and powerful as the wiki calls it and just automatically wins in close range maybe THEY should be the ones worried about positioning and getting kited.
Heck let’s rework Magmar’s cards so they require positionig.
Let’s make Plasma Storm, Rebuke, Natural Selection and Lava Lance only affect minions nearby your general. Lets also make Rag’s BBS summon the egg only in the space directly behind your general. Let’s make Lava Slasher only fight the minion in front of it.
There you go positioning! Hurray!

It’s funny how often you advocate for “positioning” meanwhile magmar is the single biggest offender of the rules you pretend to love so much.

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Honestly, it if wasn’t for pupa bomb, a card no one really plays anyway, that would be a really good change.


Ahh, the only thing that could make the forum alive.
A deck complaint/discussion thread.



Playing against Fault is like playing with a handicap. Your opponent is going to spawn 5 dervishes. Again and again and again.
You can’t run away or you will lose. Slow and painfully. You get grinded down.
Sometimes you can try to ignore Fault and rush your opponent but can be risky, especially when Kha exists.

To conquer Fault you have to put 5 minions in a column. You can’t normally do that in one turn. You have to smack dervishes again and again to slowly occupy the sand tiles.
Your opponent will of course try to prevent you from occupying the sand tiles.

Practically when you see Fault you are going to have a very long fight, win or lose :tired_face:.

Ignoring the setup for Kha there are some differences with Kha to a normal AOE.
With Kha you see your minions die one by one. You see that Kha slowly flying across the board and hit something. You see that transformation and repeats for a number of times. By the end of the process you have already lost focus on the game because it took so long.
Then after the ‘AOE’ you usually still have a Kha on the board, who flew all the way to the far corner of the board. He is taunting you saying ‘you can’t reach me’. If you don’t destroy all of your opponent’s dervishes you are going to get ‘AOEd’ next turn.


Which is exactly the only thing that counters Magmar board clears.
Summon 5 dervishes. They cleared your board? Summon 5 dervishes again. Oh they did it again? No problem you can keep going until they run out of cards.
This is the problem you run into when you give one faction all these high impact board clears. Then you’re going to need to add in a swarm generating machine to combat it.
Fault only exists people insist on Magmar being busted. Remove Magmar and you don’t need Fault to keep it in check.

And that’s exactly what you need to combat Magmar’s ridiculously overtuned end game: An AOE (for big minions) every turn.

Fault VS Magmar is the single match up that actually works out the way it should.
You successfully kite the big beefy guy and now you get rewarded for it. That’s how it should be.
The problem is no other faction has that option.
You can “position” against Magmar if you can afford to play multiple small minions thanks to dream shaper every turn to block their advanes but you can’t don’t have the same privillege with other factions. Then after you kite them for so long then you actually get to win… not lose anyways because of Magmar’s ridiculously overtuned end game.

I think what I’m trying to say is that Magmar should be the aggressor. They shouldn’t be able to sit in the corner and spawn eggs or grow or win with a crazy card like evolutionary apex.
If they can’t get to you and kill you they must lose the way they do to fault.

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Zirix at 6 mana: Fault + rae.
Vaath at 6 mana: plasma storm.
Zirix at 7 mana: Summons Kha. 15 damage to the face. Summons 2 mana thing. 18 more damage to the face.
Vaath at 7 mana: dead
And Duelyst is not just about Magmar or Vetruvian.
People hate 6 mana gain permanent effect and everything that supports it.


Debate thread! :eyes: I can’t resist its call.

My take on the dislike of fault is that it’s a midrange deck that’s favored against practically all other midrange decks. This means that, to beat it, your deck will need to be aggressive enough to win pre-fault or have enough late game power to out-value fault (not an easy feat let me tell ya :sweat_smile:).

Having to gravitate to one end of the spectrum to gain the edge on fault makes for some heavy deck building restrictions. Also, its consistency, aided by the golem draw engine, leads to many games playing out the same way.

My understanding is that you’ve been playing for a few months. For those who have played longer, watching games play out the same way over and over grows tiresome over time.

This idea is being portrayed as a positive, but it’s actually a personal gripe I have with many late game decks these days. Rather than grow value over time and grind out your opponent, it’s all about merely surviving until a player can click the win button. At that point, games stop being “Well Played” and instead become “Well Drawn”.

If anyone wants to play fault, I’m not gonna hate them for it. These are just some of the thoughts that go through my head when I face it.


I see you wish to deet muRgMurr. Fret not, as there are many people here who would love to join you on this quest!

There are many weaknesses to these lizards, gathered over many years:
1: Artifacts: lizards don’t have many pings.
2: Arcanysts: lizards struggle removing owl-boosted boards.
3: Dying Wish: lizard removal doesn’t handle multi-layer bodies
4: Superior Mirage: You have rushy rushy? Now I have rushy rushy! :smiling_imp:
5: Mechaz0r!!!: REBUKE THIS NURD!
6: Magmar: If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.