Duelyst Forums

Why I'm Not Salty About the Siphon Nerf: A (Dysfunctional) Suggestion Thread

#3

I wouldn’t mind seeing Circle of Desication and Scion’s Third Wish being changed. Right now, they just seem too clunky and Situational.

Scion’s Third Wish

3 mana: Dispel a target minion. Then give it -3/-3

Vetruvian is thoroughly lacking in removal options. Since they already have enough minion buffs that give flying, something like this would aid tempo and control variants a lot while still allowing the (currently non-existent) buff- based Vetruvian to exist.

Two Looped Limacon (formerly circle) of Desiccation

8 mana. Destroy all non-structure minions. At the start of your next turn, Destroy all non- structure minions.

This makes the spell a bit similar to the old time maelstrom. You can use it to clear the board and then block your opponent from playing minions next turn. Effectively, this is a complete board clear that gives you initiative on your next turn. There are some ways to play around this and you have to be loosing to gain any value from this so overall, it seems balanced

Psychic Conduit

4 mana, take control of exactly two target minions with mana cost 2 or less (cannot be played if your opponent has less than two 2 mana minions)

So far, there are few, if any, tools to counter early on board aggression. Small minions are some of the best, and hardest to counter, in the game. The existence of a card like this would force some decks to hold on to their smaller minions or not play 16 2-drops. Like Zen’rui, but only less frustrating. This can be easily played around by holding on to your 2 drops or playing more 3 drops.

4 Likes
#4

These change ideas are awesome, especially to Sand Howler (always felt like it was the bulk of the Vetruvian’s fighting forces) And such a change could mean that the devs could safely nerf Nimbus’ Obelysk Spawn to maybe once at the end of your turn. Fountain of Youth change would also mean the devs could potentially dump Falcius’ ability to prevent damage the turn it was summoned and instead keep the +2 attack. Though the Orb Weaver one would have a pretty funky interaction with Inner Oasis, and a question with Orb Weaver’s suggested copy change, would it’s ability to copy buffs over to other Weavers in play also effect ones that are summoned?

#5

First, the idea of the Fountain of Youth change is to be redundant with Falcius. Falcius is powerful, but awkward. The idea is that “prevent damage” is an effect than Vet doesn’t pay a whole extra mana for. It’s very important that Falcius stay in-tact, but tools be supplied that don’t make it such a hard staple. I get that being on the receiving end of Falcius at it’s best is intimidating. But in practice, it can turn sour quite easily. If Falcius ever does get nerfed, it’ll probably just be to give +1 ATK instead of +2 (assuming Vet ever actually gets out of control.) Vet doesn’t get in-class healing that doesn’t have a permissive element (IE Aymara Healer-), which makes the “Prevent Damage” effect make quite a bit of sense.

Second. I’d actually be more terrified of your “nerfed Nimbus”. Kiting around dropping free Obelysks is far more enticing than having to carefully trade Nimbus’s health for cards. Again, Nimbus is a card that can be outstanding with proper support, but has been overestimated.

The orb weaver cares about targets, Inner Oasis doesn’t target. Oasis would just do what it always does. Whereas, The Wishes, Cosmic Flesh or Astral Phasing would copy them-self onto each other Orb Weaver. The spell-clause is also sortof important because if we get any “ability givers” better than Wood Wen, or attack buffs greater than Primus Fist, Orb Weaver might accidentally create too much pressure with just the two from playing the minion card (if the “friendly spell” clause were nonexistant.)

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#6

I’m pretty sure that their fountain of youth suggestion carries over to your opponent’s turn. Essentially, you buy an extra turn to survive and draw two cards.

#7

No, it specifically says “this turn” in regards to the no damage keywords. If the effect bled over into the opponent’s turn then the card would be broken

#8

What about just reverting the siphon nerf xD. Cause it we fine as it is.

I thought about this, what do you guys think?
Scion’s third wish 2mana : give a friendly minion blast this turn and +1 +1 , draw a card at the end of your turn.

Is 2 mana costed too low? Considering first wish is 1mana and I thought giving anything a turn with the word blast is justifiable for just 1mana since its temporary. What do you guys think?

2 Likes
#9

I’d take it in a heartbeat

#10

I am not so sure about the minion changes. Sandhowler seems broken with whispers of the sands which cycles itself already.

At the moment I am against stronger Vetruvian minions until Inner Oasis gets reworked to not be a win more card.

The wind slicer change honestly is very interesting. Definitely will spark deck building on my part if it goes through. Can’t stress it enough how interesting it is.

Orb Weaver change I am not so sure honestly. Sounds too snowbally for my taste.
I wonder if reworking it into a support unit that does what it currently does but heals friendly characters around it at the end of the turn might be interesting.

Fountain of Youth change seems good. However I would advice that it is a health restore instead of damage prevention for the sake of keeping the health restore flavor. Otherwise I like the proposed change.

Sandtrap rework I find while interesting, I personally would like to see sandtrap tweaked instead of reworked into a different spell. The way I view sandtrap, is that it is the counter-part to the “nearby to your general” cards. While dominate will is good, entropic decay is meh, and new siphon makes purify look good. Sandtrap in of itself just needs a small tweak for it to be competive and it is added to the other cat&mouse cards Vetruvian has i.e. “Do I play around blast or dancing blades/star’s fury?”.

A one mana sandtrap or a sandtrap that cycles itself would be rather good buffs to the card. Not sure which one is better for the card.

#11

The Wish Cycle carries a number correlation theme. Scion’s Third Wish is all about 3s.

Honestly, Siphon isn’t terrible now- but the change really does impact Vet’s ability to just deal with things.

#12

Wouldnt mind bumping the cost to 3. Maybe make it +2 +2 or just leave it as it is with 3 cost. Siphon is terrible tbh. I mean you dont siphon stuff near you. And after playing 2-3 games in S-rank, every one I met just summons stuff behind them now. I need to chain summon stuff to shroud them. I even got killed by a cassy to x2 rot9m. Had to chain summon to dispel the first one, second one just killed me because my board presence was so bad needing to answer such cards by exhausting so many resources.

#14

No. Ice Block would be waaaaay too good xD

#15

as a vet player.

it is.

theres no answers to so many things on the board. someone lays down a chakra avatar and buffs the shit out of it turn 1? concede.

its like being abyss but having somehow even worse removal, and overall less viable good in faction cards.

siphon is terrible, major threats are played out of range of your general, but in range should they move things around. this means effectively that if you want to dispel something against a competent opponent, your options are literally:

run away

face tank 1 attack then dispel.

man a 0 mana dispel is pretty awful. not even going into the fact chromatic cold has literally always been better, for the fact wolf transformation is a 1 mana dispel/get fucked on big minions and is somehow fair.

nevermind the fact magmar can just explode something for 2 mana, or turn it into a shitty battlepet that suicides itself on vaath’s ass if hes buffed one.

nevermind the fact songhai, the literal cancer of the match has more viable removal options from afar.

nevermind the fact lyonar has a ranged dispel that majorly capitalizes on positioning and has tons of utility that make it good.

hell the only one close to vet in terms of inability to deal with major threats early is abyss, but their minions are actually broken, and any real vet player can tell you that. for all falcius and aymara are, they are the only real great cards in vet minion wise.

vet was pretty bad before the patch, according to the win rates gathered by some ~120 s rank players, they were literally the worst faction on average.

and they nerfed a card that was incredibly needed for the vet in order to function for every architype, for agro it let you get through things, deal with ranged threats, and help maintain board, for control it was required to not just explode to one buffed threat. without it, you are pretty much playing with sticks for removal, meanwhile your opponent has a cannon that can literally blow the shit out of your stuff from across the map, not even leaving a body behind.

6 Likes
#16

I wanted to take some time before replying to this… Scion’s Third Wish is fine as it, but if it is changed it needs to keep the 3s theme. -3/-3 to a target minion, and +3 ATK to your General would work. But 3 is a very tricky number to play with, without breaking a 3 cost card.

Most of Vet’s problems are solved with a couple of functional 2-3 mana removal spells, a spell that says “Draw 2”, and possibly cost reduction to things like Circle of Dessication (Could very reasonably cost 6), Star’s Fury (could reasonably cost 4 again,) and Entropic Decay (the General reach could justify it costing 3- which fixes a whole host of problems Vet has with handling provokes.) Reverting Siphon might alleviate all of these issues a little bit, but Vet is worse for having to rely on it. The new Siphon is still a fine card, but minor changes/redesign are absolutely necessary for a chunk of the Vetruvian core set cards.

#17

Just another data point. I made a Vet aggro deck that has mostly worked pretty well… and then I ran into Lilithe. She parked a bloodmoon priestess in the back, surrounded it with wraithlings, and the game was over. Seriously. I have blast minions, but Abyssian (unlike Vetruvian) has tons of removal, and so that was pointless. Star’s Fury? Pointless. Bone Swarm? Pointless.

There’s literally nothing I could do. I guess if I got lucky enough to get my Wildfire Ankh and a Falcius the same turn that would have worked. That’s it, though. And she’d just play another one.

I don’t know what the solution to this situation is, but some sort of solution is needed.

#18

#DustWailerMeta

I’ll be back with an actual useful comment later.

#19

CPG couldn’t realize how important Siphon was for Vetruvian and now the faction’s dead in the gutter again until the next patch.

#20

No, you’re jsut bad at the game. Positioning actually matters you know, you need to position yourself better. I mean 90% of the removal in game doesnt care about positioning but you’re stuck with the faction that needs to care about it, too bad for you. Cause I mean like, better positioning could’ve allowed you to neutralize or remove the minion with the faction that has the best tools to neutralize threats in the game right? RIGHT?

#21

Mayyyyybe, you should have added /s after xD
Not everyone cant tell that that’s sarcasm xD

1 Like
#22

Lmfao. I’m sorry that I disappeared this weekend and missed this gold :smiley: Would love to see how someone reaches this conclusion though!

#23

My ribs are on fire. There are tools to mitigate some of the issues though. We don’t want to be overly dramatic about it. Vet needs a little bit of new life breathed into it- but isn’t so far behind the pack that we need another card like Kron. I’m actually super afraid of CPG over-compensating and giving Vet lateral improvements, when the problem is simply a matter of not having enough play. The faction needs flexible tools, not a raw power hike.