Which of these cards is in the greatest need of a nerf/rework? (October)


#1

[poll type=multiple min=1 max=3 public=true]

  • Mirror Meld
  • Kara (The General)
  • Dioltas
  • Nimbus
  • Inquisitor Kron
  • Reaper of the Nine Moons
  • Pax
  • Falcius
  • Zen’rui
  • Abyssal Juggernaut
  • Saberspine Tiger
  • Nature’s Confluence
  • Mandrake
  • Lantern Fox
  • Holy Immolation
  • Spectral Revenant
  • Chrystalis Burst
  • Makantor Warbeast[/poll]

From now on, by popular request, everyone will get 3 votes in the poll.
This ought to improve consistency if public opinion is somewhat
unified. Additionally, I have added quite a few cards to the list just
for the sake of completion. Anything below 1% on the polls at the end
of this month will be removed until the next significant balance patch.
I roughly added every card I ever see complaints about so that all
opinions can be considered. I did not re-add cards that were previously
on the poll but received less than 1% of the votes in a previous month.
If you think it’s silly that a card is on here, that’s okay - don’t
vote for it, and it may not be present next month.

Link to last month’s poll for easy comparisons:

Also, I encourage everyone to discuss their votes to keep this visible on the forum.


Which of these cards is in the greatest need of a nerf/rework? (November - Fixed Poll)
#2

grabs popcorn
waiting for complai- i mean comments


#3

I just want Fox to die off


#4

I just want Fox changed to read “when this minion deals damage”. I feel like that makes it slightly less awful to deal with while not killing the card entirely.

My other picks were Kara and Saberspine Tiger. I think Kara is completely devoid of any flavour, and I think cards like Tiger that make their way into almost every deck (it fits in aggro, midrange, and some control) are problematic.


#5

Can we add Spelljammer to the list? It is not inherently overpowered, but is very irritating and destroys any deck that cares about value. This is one of the primary cards that enable face decks.

My choices:

Inquisitor Kron:


I have had enough of this bloody card. While I have no numbers to back this up, I believe that this card single-handedly made the player going first have higher winrates than the one going second, since player one can use the mana tiles to play it on turn 3 consistently. This card is present in almost all decks, barring Spellhai. That is how broken it is. No card other than prenerf Keeper of the Vale and Lady Locke has ever been this common.

There is an argument floating around that Kron is only so common because there are few 5 drop choices. This is simply untrue. Ironcliff Guardian, Second Sun, Hamon Bladeseeker, Starfire Scarab, Nimbus, Reaper of the Nine Moons, Spirit Harvester, Nature’s Confluence, Frostiva, Dancing Blades , Grincher, Zen’Rui, Sunset Paragon, and Primus Shieldmaster are all powerful enough to see play, yet are often outclassed by Kron. Even before Shim’zar, the 5 drop spot was one of the most important, right behind the 2 and 4 mana spot. It was the spot that marked the grey area between mid and lategame, so many of the minions there were quite potent. The bold ones are cards that saw extensive play pre-Kron, but have now been all but replaced by him. Remember when Primus Shield was in every deck? Well, now, he and the factional 5 drop of choice have been replaced by Kron. Kron is not the only playable neutral minion that does what he does; he’s just a broken card.

My ideas for rework:

5 mana
4/7
provoke, whenever your opponent replaces a card, summon a 2/2 prisioner

This will make playing with/against him far more interesting. You can lock down the opponent’s hand, forcing them to either sacrifice consistency of draw, or give you a free body.

5 mana
4/6
provoke, whenever you replace a card, add a 2/2 prisioner to your hand (it costs 1 mana)

This will make Kron a far weaker on-curve play. If Kron is played like he usually is, on the 5/6 mana turn or earlier with mana tiles, this would make him an undersized provoke that draws a card; decent enough. If this is played in the late game, it is even more potent that it is right now since players usually float one or two mana a turn past turn 8 and the parishioners can be replaced or positioned whenever you want.

6 mana
5/5
Provoke. Whenever you replace a card, summon a 3/3 prisoner (the forcefield one now has celerity instead)

This version of the card would be cemented firmly in he “late game” category, not the grey zone that it is currently in.

Maybe, a Kron nerf would hurt the replace archetype too much. However, replace decks should work because of a large quantity of good minions, not one blatantly overpowered one and a bunch or mediocre ones.

White Locust
4 mana
0/3
Provoke: Whenever you replace a card, summon a white locust (let the shenanigans begin)

Saberspine Tiger


I hoped that this day wouldn’t come, but it seems that we have finally achieved that critical mass of buff cards to make this minion overpowered. Originally, I really liked this card. It was an early, basic minion that taught new players about the concepts of value and tempo while still being good enough to see play in top tier decks. To every faction, it was an over costed phoenix fire that had the chance to survive to fire again. However, giving every faction access to rush is very risky. Now, when played alone, this card is decent enough but when combined with other cards, it becomes quite dangerous. Vanar has Kara’s BBS, Lyonar has Holy Immolation and Argeon’s BBS, Magmar has Thumping wave, Abyssian had Shadow Reflection, Vetruvian has First and Second Wish, the Neutrals has Primus Fist and Songhai… doesn’t play it because they have tusk Boar and Phoenix Fire. Giving rush to every faction allows a lot of out of hand damage from cards meant to reward keeping a minion alive for a turn.

As for Gauntlet, this card is hard to replace since it is a reliable source of 3 damage to anything. This is especially helpful against ranged minions and Reva.

My suggestions:

3 mana
3/4
Frenzy

This would make it a good three drop for new players to experiment with and teach positioning.

3 mana
3/2
Opening Gambit: Draw a card

Still a very simplistic card for newer players, but one that is harder to exploit was the card pool grows larger.

4 mana
3/4
Rush

Just a straight up nerf while still keeping to the spirit of the original.

Spelljammer


This card may not be on the list, but it deserves a mention here. This is one of the primary enablers of burst heavy decks. If you are trying to play a strategy that relies on out-valuing your opponent, and controlling the board, this card is completely devastating. By playing this card, you put your opponent in the awkward situation where, if they destroy it, they fall behind on cards, yet if they leave it up, you draw enough to rush them down. Overall, a very aggressive card that harms control decks.

My suggestions:

3 mana
2/5
at the start of their turn, each player draws a card

The increased stats compensate for the they fact that your opponent gains +1 card if they destroy it on their turn.

3 mana
2/3
Ranged. Your opponent may not draw or replace cards during their turn if you have not replaced or drawn cards during your last turn.

This allows you to stop your opponent from activating Kron or digging for combo pieces if you do not draw or replace. An odd ability that forces you to give up on extra draw and replace to force your opponent to do the same. Note that drawing cards at the end of turn does not count as drawing them during your turn.

(Dis)Honorable Mentions:

  • Kara (she will most definitely get changed when the bloodborn spell expansion comes out)

  • Makantor Warbeast (it didn’t get any more broken, any most have already learned to live with it)

  • Spectral Revenant (yes, nerf the only 7 drop minion seeing competitive play)

  • Mirror meld (make it not copy buffs, allow you to choose specific spaces, and copy/steal enemy minions)

  • Pax (After the initial shock of having a 2 mana 6/5 has worn off, this card has gotten easier to deal with. Think of it as 2 mana for 2 stunned 2/2’s that deals 2 damage on a minion of your opponent’s choice)

May, that rant felt good.


#6

Inquisitor Kron can feel legitimately unfair when it pulls out that Forcefield prisoner. That one guy is so blatantly stronger than the others. Honestly, Kron needs a bigger downside to him, because as it is now, there’s no reason NOT to play him over every other 5 drop in constructed, and every other legendary in gauntlet. He’s a great card, his design doesn’t make me half as mad as Shadow Nova used to, but he seriously needs a little downtuning, if only to make it reasonable for people to consider other cards than him.

Chrysalis Burst also needs to be looked at. Veteran Silithar got nerfed very hard, which makes sense in light of the changes to the rebirth mechanic, but those same changes should also justify a reconsideration of whether or not Burst randomly creating a Makantor or a given Grow minion is very fair.


#7

Your Mirror Meld suggestion might as well delete the card. Why would you spend 2 mana to copy a plain 2-drop?

The forums unfortunately have a 20-option limit for the polls, so I can’t add more cards. If a card gets 0% of the vote, though, I’ll put Spelljammer in. Personally, Spelljammer is my favorite card, and I don’t see why it’s a problem for aggro to have good cards. Yes, it makes control decks awkward, but it’s not hard for most control decks to nuke it down in a turn. Then it becomes a 2/4 that draws you a card when you play it, which is hardly worth nerfing.


#8

Can we? I love Miss Jammer as much as the next fool- but cardflow is waaay more important to Duelyst than similar games. Even in control, or super value heavy decks, just getting to grind deeper into your deck before your opponent does is REALLY good. It generates consistency for burst, thins you decks, makes every replace step afterwards that much better etc.


#9

Kron is going to get a lot of hate, but Chrystalis Burst is a greater irritant for me. I’ve got enough tools to usually neutralize Kron in one turn, but not having Ghost Lightning or Skorn in hand when a Chrystalis Burst drops usually means I have to sacrifice most of my hand and board presence dealing with the non-sense that results from that one card or just straight up die.

Maybe limit what pops out?


#10

I’d say Kron could use a slight nerf. I think maybe toning down the stats a tiny bit and removing the forcefield prisoner should be good.

But aside from Kron and the obligatory Reaper of the Nine Moons I’d Chrystalis Burst and maybe(?) Falcius.


#11

Why isn’t Kelaino on the list?


#12

Crap, I don’t wanna answer what I answered now. I thought about it and was like “Wait…”


#13

Dr. Kron for sure, then reaper andchrysalis just cause roulette are poo. Honorable mention to falcius as im sure even devs meant to avoid counterattacks damage,and not ayamaras or shadowdancer damage =)


#14

Removing staple deck archetypes seems to be a bad thing to me.


#15

I’m wondering why Abyssal Juggernaut, Saberspine Tiger, and a few other cards that received only 1% last month are still on this month’s poll.


#16

Kron obviously needs some tuning but he is kinda needed for slowing down games. I didn’t vote for him because he is popular enough already and I just find we need cards like him(not so blatantly good tho).

As for kara, I don’t think I need to say why she’s broken af. That faction has the most removals, her bbs makes any cheap minion a force to be reckoned with. And she is basically a midrange deck with late game(due to bbs) minions that function like a control deck and the minions she can poop out at the cost of an aggressive deck. Like wtf. Didn’t even mention her rush kitties.

As for mandrake. The card isn’t blatantly op but the fact that it costs 0 for a 6-6 is quite ridiculous. Same with anything that costs 0. Things that costs 0 shouldnt have such a huge impact like a mandrake.

Or like songhai’s inner focus(rush) with their other spell synergies. And also juxtaposition which is for songhai basically a 0 mana provoke removal. Siphon is fine because it gives tempo but no direct impact and in fact a loss of value as you paid 0 mana just for a dispel, the body is still there and the fact that vet is a value faction means they don’t get too huge of a swing by playing this card from behind, at max just denying the opponent some valuable effects (eg. Lantern fox, aymara).

Mirror meld is just plain dumb. Not as powerful as everyone thought it would be but still a glaring issue. It’s basically a card that allows otk with not much counterplay other than God-drawing your opponent out. Of they draw right, you die turn 6,7. Nothing you could’ve done about it.

Im surprised Sworn sister L’Kian isnt on this list.


#17

The last time i checked nobody used Second Sun and harvester because they are pretty bad.As a magmar main i also highly question confluence in that list, but its not a bad card and playable at least so whatever. Most of those are faction specifics, i.e. your list shows a variety of choices that in reality isn’t there. Sunset paragon, zenrui and DBlades are neutrals and good for sure. But they are REACTIVE CARDS, no proactive ones like Kron. Kron is pretty much the only playable proactive neutral fivedrop. he fits a very specific niche that many decks want, while other 5 drops like Keeper require a specific deck setup. Kron pretty much IS a primus shieldmaster, just for the 5 Slot. Nuff said.


#18

Spell Jammer
My currently number one card for a change is Spell Jammer and it wasn’t on the list :frowning: It is in every aggressive decks and allows them to just vomit out their hand. If you deal with it right away they still got a draw for 3 mana and a 2/4 body. If you let it live they draw more.
Suggestion: Either completely remake it or just try out 2/3 for her stats.

Kron
I’m unsure on how to change it, I just really hate the randomness, getting the forcefield is so incredibly strong.
Suggestion: Balance the prisoners stats around the ability OR remove the oppressive ones.

Falcius
Way to strong for it’s cost, faction stables are ok, but vet is getting close to having to many.
Suggestion: Lower it’s stats by one or two points, it will still be powerfull.

Kara
I don’t particularly think her ability is overpowered, but it certainly is boring, she doesn’t feel like vanar general, but rather a neutral one.
Suggestion: I have no ideas here, I kinda like the interaction with the hand so IDK.

Reaper
Lame rng, but not a problem powerwise
Suggestion: Summon random minion with a specific mana cost from the opponent. Not to sure about this one though.

I honestly feel like the rest is fine, at least for now.


#19

I’ll concur on Kara, she feels like she got a Magmar thematic BBS for some reason. (Grow)


#20

Thanks for doing these.

Request for future: list the cards in alphabetical order, or randomize them each time. The order of items in polls does matter.