Which nerf was more overdone? Mana Vortex, or Warsong Commander?

  • Mana Vortex
  • Warsong Commander

0 voters

This thread is tongue-in-cheek, but really, the Mana Vortex nerf is the most ridiculous nerf a card has received since I started playing this game. My own control decks that used the card are now unplayable because spells like Twin Strikes are way too expensive to use without combo cards like Mana Vortex AND Crescent Spear. While an entire Songhai archetype was dealt a deathblow, facerush rampage is now the only meta I experience in S-Rank. I get one of three choices for opponents now:

Lyonar, featuring Holy Immolation spam into Roar’d Saberspine Tigers.
Magmar, featuring Elucidator and Makantor Warbeast spam into Keeper of the Value for even more facerush spam.
Abyssian, featuring a bunch of random cards that don’t matter because you will inevitably get hit in the face by three Spectral Revenants anyway.

Rush, as a mechanic, is a bigger problem in this game than it ever has been. Meanwhile, Mana Vortex has gone from one of the best cards in the game to trash. Couldn’t it at least have reduced mana costs by 3 to preserve its tempo aspect?


imagine the horror of 5 mana spiral techniques.

compare mana vortex to flash reincarnation and darkfire sacrifice. they both cost 0 to make a minion cost 2 less, but take something in return. darkfire takes a body, and flash takes damage. now look at old mana vortex. it reduces your mana cost by 1 AND draws you a card for 0 mana without any downsides.

It was broken, and now its trash because it isn’t broken.

if mana vortex was like flash or darkfire, then perhaps it would look something like this.

reduce the next spell you play by 2 mana, deal 2 damage to your general.

would you really want that?

P.S. i have no idea what warsong commander is.


Warsong who? 15characters


I voted then realized this would happen:

You should probably put both the cards in their original and changed forms into the OP, @karsticles .

As for the nerf, from reading over bagoum’s updated tier list, the patch as a whole achieved its goal of slowing down Duelyst (for the most part, looking at you, now-top-for-several-months argeon). I just don’t think it warranted murdering the whole faction into relative irrelevance. Even the midrange Reva list that’s at the top of b-tier there is still a midrange list, which is decidedly veered away from the faction identity of many-spell-slingers.

At least the warsong nerf killed something actually stupid.

first control sajj, now control reva. stop murdering what I like cpg


Did you see what they did to siphon? That was much worse than mana vortex. Mana vortex was broken, now it’s fair

I don’t think that it nerfed the faction into oblivion. Give it time. Vet managed to ressurge after last patch, so will songhai (and so will lyonar after next month’s patch, despite what lyonar mains will say)


well, considering the nerf to warsong destroyed one of the only viable combo decks in hearthstone’s history to this day. i wouldn’t call it stupid. but that’s my opinion


I am by no means a songhai advocate or experienced songhai player, but i think calling vortex fair is pretty optimistic. While investing a card into a big body with flash is usefull for control and midrange and even aggro decks, simply because you get a body, which you can obviously customize, getting a lower mana discount on spells is far far worse, since spells don’t leave bodies. Its just nigh impossible to justify including it in a deck rn, since you can just resort to stuff like MDS and inner focus if you want cheap spells, that ACTUALLY DO STH…


Warsong nerf destroyed the strongest deck in HS history, so I voted that one. But the Mana Vortex nerf sounds as punishing to me. I don’t like when good cards are declassed to unusable junk. I may not be the best player around, but I would never run Mana Vortex in my decks after the nerf.


hey, I said it’s fair, not good =P


Fair implies playable to me. New Vortex is plain garbage.


No idea what Warsong is… it’s apparently something from some game called Hearthstone and I am surprised to see a thread on the Duelyst forums assume that players know about a specific nerf in another game.
Weirdness :stuck_out_tongue:

About Mana Vortex, yes I doubt it will be played much now except in very special decks, which is sort of fine really, it just requires readjustment.

It’s really not bad. It opens up creativity for the Songhai faction and I love that.

Siphon Energy nerf on the other hand removes basically the only immediate counter against far away threats Vetruvian had. Much more of a problem in general for general viability, although the Mana Vortex really hurt one deckstyle hard whereas the Siphon Energy nerf hurt a faction but no specific deck style.

So if the vote was between Songhai’s Vortex and Vetruvian’s Siphon I’d pick Siphon for sure.


A spell that reduces spell cost is huge in a faction that has a lot of damage spells. The topping on the cake was it replaced it self at the end of your turn. We got several neutral cards that gain something from using spells or make them cheaper. Not to mention song hair has minions that either hurt or get buffed by spells. The change was due whether you like it or not.


Siphon Energy…


Locking thread, no real discussion to be had here between two different cards in two different games.