Duelyst Forums

When will we be able to disenchant Bloodborn cards?

#28

I find these discussions silly.

Every months or so there is another thread like this. The pretense changes, but the topic stays the same: hey, give me X! I don’t want to pay Z.

This time the pretense is the business model for bloodborn.

What you fail to realise however, is that you are in fact not paying just for the bloodborn cards. You are also paying for the game, paying the salaries of the developers, the server …
Bloodborn is just their current business model, they don’t charge for the game, so they need a certain income from the expansions.

And whether you are paying to much or not enough does not depend on the use you make of these cards, but on whether CPG is able to run their services on this money or not.

Which I hope they will be able to for a very long time :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#29

I agree. My point is that under the current model if you own all the cards in the Bloodborn set, then you will never need to get them ever again. Since you can’t buy card packs for it once you literally own all its cards then it can no longer generate profit from you. If you ground your way to that full set they will never see any money from you ever because you’ll never have a reason to buy a pack (even if you could). If Bloodborn was using Shim’Zar’s model then you could have the potential of purchasing future packs. I can understand the first model for a new set so that everyone gets the cards. But after they have I do not see why you wouldn’t switch it to the Shim’Zar model if you wanted to continue making money from the Bloodborn set.

Ultimately it comes down to a business model that I don’t agree with or think is productive. I’ll keep playing the game but I don’t feel compelled to buy any more packs for the new set (I’ve already bought two) as I feel like I’m throwing my money away.

#30

Actually, I would argue the business model is better for the last two sets than for Shim’zar. Now, I don’t have the actual data, so I can confirm this, but I would image more players are willing to spend 20$ to get a play-set of all 39 cards than spend 50$ to get a bunch of the cards and maybe enough spirit to craft the rest. And, judging from how they reused the Bloodborn model, I think it was probably successful in getting more people to spend.

#31

I understand using that model for new sets: it makes it so people are more inclined to play more games to unlock more cards (or pay) and then spend more time playing with the new decks they’re able to create.

But there’s no reason why after you have all the cards from a previous set why you shouldn’t be able to disenchant them. If we’re talking dollars to cents, I agree that people will most likely spend $20 for the full set then $50 for packs. However, with the current model, once you have collected that $20 you will not receive any more money because you can’t add any cards to that set or disenchant them to require repurchasing. If you stuck with the first model and then switched over to Shim’Zar, you can get your $20 and additional money for future Bloodborn packs sold. As it stands right now I will never get another Bloodborn pack ever.

#32

But nobody will buy more Bloodborn packs (If they already have the set). People don’t spend money on things they already have. The people who would spend money? New players, who don’t have any of the cards. And, as previously stated, they are more likely to buy the Bloodborn set than Shim’zar orbs.

#33

Again, why can’t you have both systems in place? Until you get all the cards in the set you are locked into the 300 gold or $20 mode. Once all cards are collected set it back to the Shim’Zar/Core model with packs being 100 gold for 5 random cards. There, your new players are locked in and your old players can disenchant and potentially give you future money to repurchase Bloodborn packs. People change their mind all the time and after disenchanting a bunch of cards you might want to play with them again down the road. This method makes money from new players and future considerations.

#34

This method also causes ridiculous gains in spirit. The average spirit in a Sim’zar orb is ~200.
(https://www.reddit.com/r/duelyst/comments/50npsl/denizens_of_shimzar_orbs_content_preliminary/)
The average spirit per orb in Ancient bonds? About 800.

The total disenchant value is 10,320, divided by 13 is 793.85

50$ in Shim’zar gives you ~8000 spirit.
20$ in Ancient Bonds gives you ~10,000 spirit.
That’s over 3 times as much spirit per dollar (500 spirit/dollar vs. 160 spirit/dollar)

So, yes, you could use both. But, initially buying the Ancient Bonds give so much spirit that there’s no point in buying anything else first, especially if you only care about one faction and can disenchant the 15 legendaries and 15 epics from the other factions.

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#35

But most of that spirit in those Bonds orbs are tied up in cards I don’t want. I can purchase a Shim’Zar orb, and even if I don’t get what I want, I can put them towards something I do. I don’t want to play a Songhai Bloodborn deck. Let me use that supposed spirit on cards that I actually want. Spirit that you can’t use isn’t worth anything. Even if I disenchanted all those Grandmasters to get back 1050 per group, there’s only so much I can spend that spirit on. Even if I don’t get nearly as much spirit back it’s still better than spirit I can’t use at all.

#36

They aren’t going to devalue their own product. If spirit was that accessible it would decentivize the point of buying expansions. B/c you would generate more spirit than normal and use that one future expansions. I would make an assumption that you are a f2p player which is awesome but I don’t expect any game company to be that concerned with a model that benefits f2p players. Devs gotta eat and if you enjoy this game so much (an assumption) then id expect you to be a little more understanding.

#37

The answer is they will never be able to be disenchanted.

Whether or not you agree with that is your problem.

3 Likes
#38

That is a special 1 time deal. There are also special deals for the regular orbs.
If you spend 300g for 800 spirit, that’s not much more (33%) than if you spend 100g for 200 spirit.

#39

Players said they prefer the Bloodborn and Ancient orbs. When you buy regular orbs you also get cards from all the factions you don’t play, you get a lot more duplicates and commons, and when you disenchant a card you only get a fraction of its value back. Bloodborn and Ancient orbs don’t do that, the devs have been clear about how it works, each 100g gets you 3 of a card that you can’t disenchant, if you don’t play a faction it is a little more wasteful but that’s a concession you have to make for these more convenient new orbs.

#40

But I bought two Bonds orbs with real money before starting this thread and only got one (1) of the cards I wanted. That means 5 of the 6 are unwanted cards that I spent money on that I’m now stuck with. At least with Shim’Zar/Core orbs if I get cards I don’t want I can do something with them. These Bloodborn cards aren’t doing anything for me and are therefore valueless. It makes me not want to buy more packs because the developer has made it clear that any cards you don’t want will be never useful for anything. I like giving money to companies that I enjoy but this is not something that I enjoy and see no reason to continue doing it which I think is bad business. Buying cards you don’t want that you can’t use is a bad investment when you can get them for free.

#41

Buying single orbs with money is a trap. Buying the set, however, is extreme value even if you only play a single faction. I get you’re mad because you made a mistake, but hopefully you learned your lesson and won’t gamble your money away on packs that can’t be disenchanted when you are looking for something very specific (and if you didn’t know they couldn’t be disenchanted, you should have done more research beforehand)

3 Likes
#42

It’s still better to buy the Ancient bonds cards. With 2 Ancient bonds orbs, you get three cards you want to play. They may even be legendary. Buying 4 Shim’zar orbs for the same monetary price gives you 800 spirit. That’s less than one legendary or two epics, as opposed to three epics or three legendaries.

You’re completely ignoring the fact that you get nine cards per Ancient Bonds pack, not three. Yes, you can do something with those unwanted cards, but you can do less than you would get through Ancient bonds.

#43

No you don’t get “9” cards. You get “3” cards that are given to you in threes. Multiple copies of a single card I don’t want does not suddenly make getting the rest worth it. Giving me 3 legendary grandmasters for a faction I don’t like does not matter when I never intended to play even one of them. Again, I can understand this model when you’re first building up the set NOT after you already received all the cards.

Also legendaries that I can’t disenchant that aren’t harder to get (because they will be handed to you) really aren’t legendaries in anything but name. You could make all the cards in the set the base rank and still achieve the same thing. Getting star struck by legendaries that everyone will have by default is really dumb.

If they’re terrified of all those people somehow corrupting the game with their spirit if they disenchanted useless legendaries then maybe they shouldn’t have made them legendaries to begin with?

#44

The rank for undisenchantable cards is important when you play in the gauntlet, If they simply made all the bloodborn cards common, the gauntlet would become unplayable.

#45

Again that sounds like a poor decision to create a tier system that only matters in one aspect of the game that punishes people who don’t regularly play that aspect. Like telling baseball players that homeruns only matter in the homerun derby and aren’t worth anything otherwise. If a Legendary Variax is going throw your gauntlet run on its ass then chances are you’re already screwed. Having a bunch of high cost cards in your curve regardless of their tier is a recipe for disaster anyway. I don’t need a yellow dot to tell me that maybe building a deck around tons of 6, 7, and 8 mana might not end well for me in the beginning. Not to mention all low cost legendaries are almost always constructed centric since the majority don’t or can’t stand on their own.

Again, it feels like they looked at every other RPG in existance and went “Yeah we needs yellows!!” and then forgot why they bothered to begin with. A yellow in Core is worth at minimum 350 spirit. A yellow in Bloodborn is worth 0 spirit unless I use it. But if I don’t find it fun, I won’t use it and therefore never get access to that spirit.

#46

Not all powerful Legendaries cost 6+ mana. For example, Abyssians benefit greatly from Sarlac the Eternal and he costs only 3 mana. Drogon costs 4 mana and can end games in the gauntlet by himself.

I see you are unhappy to have three bloodborn legendaries you don’t care to use, but certainly you received three copies of a card you want from the bloodborn collection that you happily use. I think you were probably happy to receive all three copies at once instead of opening 50 orbs and not getting a single one.

#47

Again, Sarlac is not useful in Gauntlet unless you have a means to either A: keep Sarlac to a general area so it can continuously do damage or B: get lucky with spells in your draft draw as Abyssian. I wouldn’t bank on that.

As for cards that I’ve actually enjoyed in Bloodborn, no that would not be correct. Cards that I actually use most often from that set are generally blues at best. Things like Shroud (when I gave Vanar a try) or Punish for Furosa (which isn’t a legendary either). I don’t use Variax because she’s entirely situational. I tried Whiplash and Geomancer and found only Geomancer really that useful as Whiplash always gets torched before it become useful. I’d rather have a lantern fox than Whiplash.

For Lyonar, Trintiy Oath is good but that’s only because Lyonar desperately needed a means to draw late game. Scintilla is good because of its side action and it’s not a legendary either. I found most of the Bloodborn cards underwhelming and was looking forward to using them to build a fun Ancient Bonds deck (i.e. buy the support cards until I can unlock the cards from Bonds to go with them. Instead I get to grind some more despite playing this game from the beginning which is not high on my priorities list.

Drogon is one of the exceptions because it directly affects your General’s face damage, otherwise it wouldn’t be selected in gaunlet either in favour of Magmar’s other 4 mana minions.