Duelyst Forums

When will we be able to disenchant Bloodborn cards?

#20

Basically the Bloodborn and Ancient Bonds orbs provide a level of certainty. You are certain to get all the cards after a set amount of orbs. Since you can’t buy those after buying the set amount of orbs it means that any cards that you disenchant from those sets (if it were possible) would be forever gone. There could be a chance in the future where you’ll want to use those cards from factions you don’t use. If you could and did disenchant those then a few months (or whatever time later) you wanted those cards, you basically lost them forever.

The difference between Bloodborn + Ancient Bonds compared to Shim’zar and the Core set is the certainty of getting every card from the set. It may seem expensive at 300g per orb but you are getting 3 copies of each card in the orb. Whereas, Shim’zar and the Core set you are not certain to get every card from the orbs and you lose value from the cards when you disenchant them. You could say that at least the Spirit goes towards cards you want but you’ll still have to grind for Spirit to be able to craft the cards you want each time you fail to get the card you want from the orb. Also the Bloodborn and Ancient Bonds business model have been shown to be favourable by the community in a forum poll some time after the Bloodborn, where the majority of the players liked it.

#21

It actually would still create problems. The sets are only 39 cards big and have a greater number of higher rarity cards. As Dewize stated, you would be able to acquire spirit at a far higher rate even without taking into account disenchanting.

If this model were to continue, players would never have a reason to save up for or spend money on new packs. The amount of spirit they would be able to earn for such little effort would allow them to craft any card they wanted to use without needing to expose themselves to random chance, which I should point out is a major source of incentive for revenue generation.

As mentioned by Ryvirath, this would fall under the latter issue of requiring a rework to the distribution model. No matter which potential solution they could select to change this, it would require an immense amount of work to change.

I’m sorry you dislike certain cards in the game. I’m sorry you consider some cards poor enough to never use. All of us can sympathise with this to some degree. I’m not sorry, however, that you want it to change for your convenience. It’s just the way things go. :confused:

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#22

For the love of Pete.

You can’t buy new cards with spirit so having excessive amounts of it does not give you an advantage with regards to the new set. I just find the concept stupid as there is no reason you couldn’t allow the repurchasing of those cards in the future. You’ve already made your money from the set, you literally cannot get more money out of it once everyone has all the cards. This way would still give you a reason to buy a pack in the future. Seriously it makes no financial sense to have cards that you can’t resell.

Yes I understand that the limitation that currently is in place that allows for eventual gathering of expansion cards and their inability to be disenchanted is entirely based on the business decisions of the makers of this game. Yes I understand that under the current system if they were to somehow be disenchanted they would “gone forever”. My point is that this sort of business model is ok to a point but once you’ve gone beyond that point the desire to continue giving money to this company diminishes because I’m being purposely hamstrung. Again, I understand that I can take my money else where.

#23

Imagine if you were told you wanted to buy a new car and you could but you’d also be forbidden from selling it or its parts regardless of whether you like the car in the future or the demand for the car changes. Would you buy that car? If I’m going to spend money and invest in something I would like to be able to see some of that back in the future. Being stuck with something you dislike forever because it’s attached to something you do like is a crappy situation.

#24

Actually, that analogy is wrong because of orders of magnitudes. This is a game with relatively cheap prices and a lenient give out of IGC. Also, this “car” will never break down, and will forever be situationally useful

#25

Let’s make this clear. Yes, you can create new cards with spirit. You must create the prismatic versions of them (although they cost a greater amount). You can also create older cards with spirit. The changes you are asking for would increase spirit generation, even if just in the short term.

Even then, I cannot agree that it is a good idea to permanently disable a card for a player. I’m afriad it’s something you’re just going to have to accept.

I’m afraid your car analogy does not translate. We’re talking about a digital product that can only be exchanged at a limited rate for a similar item, no real world money could be acquired. If buying a car in real life meant that I could not sell it or any parts of it except for other cars or car parts, then this would be a more appropriate analogy.

And even then, I’d have to return your question right back at you: Would you buy that car? You stated that you understand you can take your money elsewhere, but I’m not certain you truely believe that. A product’s usefulness and value is defined in part at it’s conception and partly by the value you place on it yourself. If you don’t like the product, don’t buy it. If you don’t like the distribution model they’ve lined up, aquire it by any other means available to you. All products fall into these products. The scope is simply different.

#26

If I spend $20 on a set full of cards I don’t want then I’m not getting the full value of that $20. That is the point I was trying to make. If I was forced to own a car I couldn’t resell, the car’s value becomes 0 the second it stops working making buying such a car a bad investment. Therefore I would not buy that car no matter how much the salesman tried to tell me it wouldn’t break down. I play this game for fun and consider my money going towards fun rather than cards. I do not find owning cards I have no interest in fun and I think it’s unfun to be forced to have them. Especially cards that have passed their best before dates. Also it’s only situationally useful as long as it’s fun.

And again, the only reason why disenchanting cards would make them permanently gone for a player is by a conscious decision by the developer not by some natural law. They can change that model at any time.

#27

If I own all the cards in your set and I can’t get rid of them then I’ll never get them again meaning you’ll never get any money from me from now on for that set forever.

#28

I find these discussions silly.

Every months or so there is another thread like this. The pretense changes, but the topic stays the same: hey, give me X! I don’t want to pay Z.

This time the pretense is the business model for bloodborn.

What you fail to realise however, is that you are in fact not paying just for the bloodborn cards. You are also paying for the game, paying the salaries of the developers, the server …
Bloodborn is just their current business model, they don’t charge for the game, so they need a certain income from the expansions.

And whether you are paying to much or not enough does not depend on the use you make of these cards, but on whether CPG is able to run their services on this money or not.

Which I hope they will be able to for a very long time :slight_smile:

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#29

I agree. My point is that under the current model if you own all the cards in the Bloodborn set, then you will never need to get them ever again. Since you can’t buy card packs for it once you literally own all its cards then it can no longer generate profit from you. If you ground your way to that full set they will never see any money from you ever because you’ll never have a reason to buy a pack (even if you could). If Bloodborn was using Shim’Zar’s model then you could have the potential of purchasing future packs. I can understand the first model for a new set so that everyone gets the cards. But after they have I do not see why you wouldn’t switch it to the Shim’Zar model if you wanted to continue making money from the Bloodborn set.

Ultimately it comes down to a business model that I don’t agree with or think is productive. I’ll keep playing the game but I don’t feel compelled to buy any more packs for the new set (I’ve already bought two) as I feel like I’m throwing my money away.

#30

Actually, I would argue the business model is better for the last two sets than for Shim’zar. Now, I don’t have the actual data, so I can confirm this, but I would image more players are willing to spend 20$ to get a play-set of all 39 cards than spend 50$ to get a bunch of the cards and maybe enough spirit to craft the rest. And, judging from how they reused the Bloodborn model, I think it was probably successful in getting more people to spend.

#31

I understand using that model for new sets: it makes it so people are more inclined to play more games to unlock more cards (or pay) and then spend more time playing with the new decks they’re able to create.

But there’s no reason why after you have all the cards from a previous set why you shouldn’t be able to disenchant them. If we’re talking dollars to cents, I agree that people will most likely spend $20 for the full set then $50 for packs. However, with the current model, once you have collected that $20 you will not receive any more money because you can’t add any cards to that set or disenchant them to require repurchasing. If you stuck with the first model and then switched over to Shim’Zar, you can get your $20 and additional money for future Bloodborn packs sold. As it stands right now I will never get another Bloodborn pack ever.

#32

But nobody will buy more Bloodborn packs (If they already have the set). People don’t spend money on things they already have. The people who would spend money? New players, who don’t have any of the cards. And, as previously stated, they are more likely to buy the Bloodborn set than Shim’zar orbs.

#33

Again, why can’t you have both systems in place? Until you get all the cards in the set you are locked into the 300 gold or $20 mode. Once all cards are collected set it back to the Shim’Zar/Core model with packs being 100 gold for 5 random cards. There, your new players are locked in and your old players can disenchant and potentially give you future money to repurchase Bloodborn packs. People change their mind all the time and after disenchanting a bunch of cards you might want to play with them again down the road. This method makes money from new players and future considerations.

#34

This method also causes ridiculous gains in spirit. The average spirit in a Sim’zar orb is ~200.
(https://www.reddit.com/r/duelyst/comments/50npsl/denizens_of_shimzar_orbs_content_preliminary/)
The average spirit per orb in Ancient bonds? About 800.

The total disenchant value is 10,320, divided by 13 is 793.85

50$ in Shim’zar gives you ~8000 spirit.
20$ in Ancient Bonds gives you ~10,000 spirit.
That’s over 3 times as much spirit per dollar (500 spirit/dollar vs. 160 spirit/dollar)

So, yes, you could use both. But, initially buying the Ancient Bonds give so much spirit that there’s no point in buying anything else first, especially if you only care about one faction and can disenchant the 15 legendaries and 15 epics from the other factions.

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#35

But most of that spirit in those Bonds orbs are tied up in cards I don’t want. I can purchase a Shim’Zar orb, and even if I don’t get what I want, I can put them towards something I do. I don’t want to play a Songhai Bloodborn deck. Let me use that supposed spirit on cards that I actually want. Spirit that you can’t use isn’t worth anything. Even if I disenchanted all those Grandmasters to get back 1050 per group, there’s only so much I can spend that spirit on. Even if I don’t get nearly as much spirit back it’s still better than spirit I can’t use at all.

#36

They aren’t going to devalue their own product. If spirit was that accessible it would decentivize the point of buying expansions. B/c you would generate more spirit than normal and use that one future expansions. I would make an assumption that you are a f2p player which is awesome but I don’t expect any game company to be that concerned with a model that benefits f2p players. Devs gotta eat and if you enjoy this game so much (an assumption) then id expect you to be a little more understanding.

#37

The answer is they will never be able to be disenchanted.

Whether or not you agree with that is your problem.

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#38

That is a special 1 time deal. There are also special deals for the regular orbs.
If you spend 300g for 800 spirit, that’s not much more (33%) than if you spend 100g for 200 spirit.

#39

Players said they prefer the Bloodborn and Ancient orbs. When you buy regular orbs you also get cards from all the factions you don’t play, you get a lot more duplicates and commons, and when you disenchant a card you only get a fraction of its value back. Bloodborn and Ancient orbs don’t do that, the devs have been clear about how it works, each 100g gets you 3 of a card that you can’t disenchant, if you don’t play a faction it is a little more wasteful but that’s a concession you have to make for these more convenient new orbs.