What direction do you see Songhai go towards?


#1

So… with shim xar we have seen the rise of obelysk vetru, magmar has a sweer deal more growth in different ways, lyonar got ever more provoke :stuck_out_tongue:
At Songhai however it didnt look to clear what they wanted to do with it. It added some amazing cards for sure but almost looks likr they were made for a ton of different decks.
We have Zendo which basically would work best with higher cost (or buffed up) minions, pandomonium for weaker backstabbers to survive behind lines, small amount of spells of which only 1 real dmg spell which is the 8 mana, 8 dmg.

So wondering what you guys feel would fit this expansion best… people feeling backstab more now? Buffing normal minions? Spells? Or perhaps its possible to fit all possible roles in 1 deck?
What type of songhai decks or interesting looking card combos are you looking forward to being played out?


#2

Two cards:

Katara. Mirror Meld.


#3

I think songhai control might finally be viable? Every time Ive thought that I was wrong though, so I wouldnt swear by it.

There are other archetypes I want to explore before I post much about them. I think theres a lot to be discovered with the new songhai cards.


#4

I’ve been running reva songhai zoo with lots of card draw and KOAN OF HORNS KEK.
seems to work well in demotivating the opponent


#5

I’ve built a deck that’s control-ish while also applying lots of pressure. It mostly relies on things like ki beholder, scarlet viper, and makantormaster with inner focus to control the board. It’s pretty fun and has had decent success in gold. And I don’t even really have many good songhai cards


#6

Magmar is joke right now, so there no need to worry about them. Songai has been improved quite abit.
Mirror meld + Tuskboar is pretty damn good if you have pump


#7

why is mag a joke right now?


#8

The growth and rebirth synergies were underwhelming (or overhyped)


#9

Staying pretty much exactly the same as it was last few months if we’re talking competitive meta and not what people consider good in silver and gold or even diamond. I wrote an extensive analysis about why shim’zar wouldn’t and now doesn’t do much of anything for songhai outside of mirror meld on reddit but the short answer is it stays the same.

The only other thing I can see becoming a thing is backstabhai piggybacking on the buffing potential of onyx jaguar in a single turn the way you would use chakri but now on 2 and if you’re lucky 3 small minions but backstabhai is not that good anyway and will have a hard time surpassing arcanysthai or true spellhai.

CP dropped the ball on this expansion for songhai this expansion.


#10

What are you talking about? Songhai got the most diverse pool of new cards and a lot of them are playable too. I do agree Songhai hasn’t changed much yet though, but if Songhai players want to change the current lists, they have plenty of options.


#11

Playable doesn’t mean competitively viable like I mentioned in my post which is what matters as most will just play whatever is strongest. Any other questions you can read what I’ve said on reddit, I’m not going to repeat it. There’s a reason why ccalmify, unopro, nowayitsj are still playing predominately the same list as last month. So what are you talking about?


#12

Well, I believe that several of the Songhai cards designed have potential (xcept the meme cards (koan))

I agree that Songhai decks didn’t change too much, but I liked the diversity in cards we see in this expansion. And Songhai was treated better than magmar :cry: rip magmar


#13

Which ones? I’m genuinely interested because a lot of analysis e.g from kolos’ video and unopro mirrored a lot of the thoughts I had on the cards with the most common descriptions being “ok” “situational” and “fun” when describing a lot of what they received.

I’ll be tuning in to relasine’s stream later today to hear some more thoughts from wickedflux and the like but I’m sure the sentiment is going to be the same as I’ve been right about the direction of factions and cards to be included many times before they became meta.

I would love to be wrong because if songhai didn’t improve much or at least change in playstyle it would become stale but I doubt it.

Magmar was imo from playing it and watching it at the tournament level and s rank was consistently more powerful than songhai when midrange became a thing with skorn and twin fang especially against the ever prevalent kara. While they could of possibly been treated worse than songhai this expansion due to not getting many great cards either and the nerf to vet/elder silithar + taygete I woudn’t say they are worse than everyone else including songhai all of a sudden as songhai evidently didn’t change much and magmar didn’t either if you play the midrange deck of last month (which was mostly considered better than songhai as seen on managlow if you happen to take that into consideration) unless you’re experimenting which then it is likely it would be weaker.


#14

Xho, for one, has a huge ability and decent stats, only downside being a battle pet.

Katara and the other backstab support card

Ki beholder as a strong ranged minion

Coil for battle pet synergies

Crescent spear joins storm sister and 8 g8s as a potential spell damage deck that currently doesn’t work

Panddomonium as a metamorphosis-like card that could be good later on in control

Battle panddo with its fox-like ability (Death strike seal, anyone?)

Onyx jaguar as a whole new deck type (not sure how good rn, may get better later though)

Side note:
When’s relasine’s stream? And would you recommend?


#15

I’ll try to summarise my tl’dr post on reddit regarding the cards you brought up and why they aren’t as good as some people might think. Of course these are just my opinion but I think that goes without saying.

Xho like other battle pets don’t contest mana tiles early on which can be very powerful for songhai with lantern fox, IF (or no IF if you have a PF already), vortex into Phoenix Fire on their 2/3 opener for huge tempo. Later turns it’s just too slow to die to be useful with the potential to get a situational spell like defiler or ghost lightning.

Katara in short is decent but suffers in the same way other backstab minions do in that they rely on other useful cards to get in and do work for not a great payout only to then die due to their low stats in the best case scenario and worst case, they put their backs against a wall.

Shadow waltz is bad because it doesn’t make gore horn work with mirror meld while screwing it out of IF range, requires a lot of backstab minions to be in your hand to get value out of it when songhai also needs a mix of spells in their opening hand especially movement spells in the case of backstab cards otherwise you’re just paying for blank minions while other factions aren’t as you won’t ever get a backstab off.

Ki beholder seems good but not in any archetype that currently exists as the minion slots are incredibly tight right now if anything I could only see them in backstab lists so kaleos’ blink could get you a backstab without mds or jux.

Coil is just a meme if you ask me, because Xho is just meh, Ace is one of the biggest jokes in a line full of bad battle pets and nothing else in songhai seems to promote a strong battle pet deck that other factions wouldn’t do better.

Crescent Spear is ok but the +1 doesn’t offer much more for phoenix fire at 4 and makes twin strike margianlly better at taking out weenies and you’re right about it not being currently good along with storm sister and eight gates.

Pandamonium is just too slow. It’s worse than meta imo because you need to pandamonium, crescent spear, ghost lightning which is up to or the same mana if played in 1 turn and costs you 3 specific cards that you needed to keep in your hand for this situation instead of 1, can’t punch it to clear like meta and it transforms your own minions too when a lot of songhai minions want to retain their buffs.

Battle Pando is also just ok because without DSS it really isn’t doing too much pinging enemies for 1 once or twice and with it, it needs to either survive a turn / not get dispelled or you IF it which costs you yet again 3 specific cards and 5 mana which you will then run the pando into his face and nothing else for that turn (since it will clear the minions with DSS) only for it to die to a normal general attack on their turn and place another huge threat on the board and you have quite an empty hand. Oh and it’s also susceptible to Zen’Rui.

Onyx Jag is ok and might have potential which I mentioned in my previous post.

In summary most of these cards aren’t good enough to do anything for current archetypes and backstabhai while getting support didn’t get anything good enough to make it better than arcanyst or spellhai let alone a top tier deck.

Relasine’s stream starts in 4 hours from now I believe and I’ve never watched it but he will be hosting it along with UnoPro, WickedFlux, etc who are obviously prominent songhai main players that will give their opinion on the cards so I would recommend tuning in if you’re interested in what they think.

Apologies that it is lengthy but it was the shortest way I could write it while giving good enough reasons


#16

Yes, the cards I mentioned are not that great right now , but I think that all the cards there have potential to be a part of decks in the future. Lots of potential, though not delivering right now.

Thanks!


#17

Np, I understand your point of view. I write these posts also as a way of giving CP feedback if they happen to read these in case I happen to be correct.

Have a good one, from one songhai player to another!


#18