Was Excited, Now I am terrified: Game Update Gripes


#21

0/10. No Lasher nerfs kappa no kappa.

Also, if you really want to balance mantra (brm change WAS a step in the right direction), you may want to hit abjudicator before mantra / eight gates.


#22

I have frequently cited abjucator and boulder hurl as the real problems behind gates/mantra. If hurl was minion only, and abjucator had like a 3/3 stat line but instead reduced one selected card or one random one per turn that would go a really long way towards moving the archtype to a healthy level.

Lasher is overpowered, but every faction has their staple powerhouses, either they all needed to be changed or none of them, certainly not just one of them.


#23

Hes right about spectral
Makantor is just as op yet not nerfed-…you cant nerf revenant without hitting the other staples


#24

No Warbeast isn’t as op as Spec Rev,Also why not use Holy immolation as your example


#25

I said other stapbles… had the choice between 1 card or counting all ,i choose the shorter one


#26

except they did just nerf rev lol.

also, lasher warps the meta way more than rev ever did, or even makantor


#27

Right, which is sort of the point we are making here, every faction has a couple cards that were as equally strong as rev and lasher. It needed to be all or none, and especially because (excluding ragnora recently, whos power has little to do with lasher) mamgar has been far from dominating so there was no reason to address Lasher. And I certainly dont think lasher is more meta warping then most faction staples, or some of the degenerate combos running around.

And as I pointed out in my op, I like factions having their strong staples, go after problematic archtypes, not staples. One makes the game healthier, the other nerfs an entire faction and makes every deck weaker without making their most degenerate decks healthier.


#28

Lavaslasher,MP and Ghost Serpahim will be dealt with by rotation. So people might as well learn deal with them because they going to be a part of game for a little while.


#29

T H I S

besides, some game mode will be preferred over another in terms of balancing which will make one of the game modes pretty annoying to bear


#30

Paraphrasing Mark Brown, a game designer and YouTuber: Forcing players into a certain playstyle is a bad thing. You should, instead, encourage them into it, while giving them the freedom not to, if they so desire.

Sorry for the double post but I’m on mobile which makes multiple quotes a pain to do


#31

The freedom comes from alternate game modes that feature all cards.


#32

Which stops me from playing the main ladder? Also, see my previous comment


#33

Which the game will no longer be balanced around meaning they will be casual and split the playerbase…a lose lose.


#34

Magic doesn’t directly balance its non-standard formats they’re still relatively decent.

lose lose


#35

Yes they do, they have a regularly updated ban list, and occasional errata. With a digital game you dont need a ban list, you can just have balance patches.


#36

Maybe we’ll go standard one month, eternal the next.


#37

Adjusting the banlist isn’t the same as developing for the format. Wizards of the Coast never designs cards for Modern, Legacy, or Vintage. And it’s not like CPG is going to suddenly stop making changes when they need to.


#38

I guess I don’t share your views regarding rotating format. And that doesn’t mean it’s wrong to be apprehensive about the format. I’m a little nervous myself. Limiting the cards a player can use is going to naturally hurt the options a player has to work with.

On the opposite side of the coin though, I’m excited for what this will mean for the game in the future. Decks these days are so incredibly optimized, to the point that there’s practically nothing you can do to make them better, unless stronger cards are printed. Power Creep can only go so far until a game is ultimately killed.

But with a rotated format, new decks can be created without having to print more busted stuff. Imagine facing Vanar when they don’t have Frostburn, or the Seraphim Reflection OTK. Imagine not being oppressed by Lavaslasher. Abyssian won’t always have Desolator or Punish. You can rejoice when the Mantra deck you despise is rotated out of ranked mode :grinning:.

I know it’s a tough transition, since we’ve always had access to all cards in the past. Who knows, maybe there will be a game mode introduced in the future that lets you use any and all cards you want. But I do think rotated format will allow greater diversity than people may think. Think of all the decks that build themselves. Think of all the staples each faction has. When we’re not confined to as many staple choices in order to be competitive, it’s up to the player to fill in gaps where auto-include cards no longer exist. I’m sure you’ll have a great time deckbuilding in a meta where certain problem cards are no longer holding you back. :wink:


#39

I am aware of the positives, and I have relented that CPG has a great gameplan as it is. Certainly the best rotation model I have seen.

I am just speaking out against as much as I can since I would prefer the “good years of modern” approach. The thing about an actively balanced modern is that its both ever changing, and people can play their old decks, its all upsides, the only downside being balance is a little harder, but not to an unreasonable level. I would much prefer slower expansion releases and more balance patches. Unlike rotations which has tons of downsides.

I am a bit out of touch with MTGs modern, and I have been informed that its gone downhill, but still, years of an amazing format with a larger cardpool then duelyst will probably ever have, even if it may have gone downhill recently, is still a pretty good basis for my argument that they can indeed skip rotation and keep things balanced and fresh at the same time. Especially if that’s where they keep their focus.

Imagine if they just addressed Flawless and brought it in line with a balance patch instead of just deleting it. They used to do regular balance patches, and it kept the game fresh, balanced, and fun. I don’t know why they stopped that in favor of just printing newer things faster.


#40

With regards to balance concerns, I suppose there’s nothing stopping the game designers from needing the card. But then what? Do people decide to play a more, for lack of a better word, “honest” Vanar deck?

Most likely not. Keeping the competitive player base in mind, when the most broken card/deck in the game is hit with the nerf hammer, they just go to the next most broken thing. This new most broken card/deck then becomes the topic of the next nerf discussion, and the pattern repeats itself.

Now the meta can refresh itself simply by rotating cards rather than need constant card redesigns or new cards added to the game to cause fluctuation.

When players have access to every card in the game, we have to be prepared to face the most disgusting decks that can be made. And as new cards are made, either nothing changes because nothing is better than what there is now, or something even stronger is printed, and decks become even more toxic. To me, that sounds like a lose-lose.