Duelyst Forums

Variax got a slap on the wrist(s)

#17

Actually summoning her on 6 mana is already pretty late and you can compare her to other 6 mana minions if you please, I am going to list a few

Her brother from another mother, Grandmaster Zendo, is a pretty underplayed card that has a super immediate effect that would in the best case (for you) scenario deal 4 damage to your face plus screw up your positioning completely for the next turn AT LEAST which can be enough to close a good amount of games

Just throwing Jaxi Truesight on the table for any faction with a good chunk of buffs is already game over in most cases

Even the good old common First Sword of Akrane, though it looks lame it has a much more immediate effect than Variax even at turn 6 where it can lend you 2+ extra damage that might be the game finisher if not, then there is a big body to deal with

Now all these are solo cards and not combos and thus their power HAS to come as a close second to hers IF combo’d (that’s how combos work, hence Songhai’s 1 turn OTK with backstaby thingies) ((although honestly if you’re indeed playing a control deck where mistakes cost you games [control is the one more focused about positioning and playing things right, right?] then being mispoisitioned by Zendo will more often than not be much worse than some 5/5s being dropped next turn))

Now there seem to be something a lot of players don’t pay attention: counters. If Variax is weak against Aggro and some controly cards and you keep facing her and losing but you refuse to tech in these cards or switch to Aggro then you need to understand, you’re being countered. There is no way to create a perfect deck in this game and if you go to almost any top tier S-ranked player with a deck or card in mind and asked them, this thing keeps beating me, they will give you a deck or a card that completely counters it in such a way it becomes mostly a “don’t laugh challenge” for you when you are facing it again. (whyb0t did a great job at explaining this but I had to elaborate a little bit more)

Oh and yes, this is why Healing Zir’an was top tier last month where there were a lot of burny burny decks as she was their hard counter, even if they were overpowered last month (less so after Gaze’s nerf this month)

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#18

My first two paragraphs state why those two balance changes would be terrible for the card. Each paragraph addresses one of your balance suggestions. In the second paragraph what I mean is that 2 5/5’s for 3 is good value, but when the mana cost goes up the value becomes pretty poor, making the awesome BBS not worth it, and therefore making Variax a bad card.

As far as wincon, Variax IS a timekeeper for the match if that’s the kind of deck you’re playing against. Variax’s inherent infinite value makes it a timekeeper, there’s no other way to go about it. But the clock you’re on allows you enough time to play any other win condition in the game, which is why Variax putting you on the clock is manageable. No deck should be so slow that you aim to win the game on turn 15+. I’ve played that slow control meta. It’s not fun.

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#19

Hmm, thats kinda interesting. So Variax is supposed to be more of a “tech card” against pure attrition decks?

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#20

Variax eccentric deck is already risky and inconsistent before the nerf. You can’t consistently pull off a turn 3 Variax. If you pull off a turn 5 Variax, your BS will only take effect starting at turn 7, because you BBS on turn 6 and you wraithlings need a turn to be ready to move and attack. Indeed, Variax’s ongoing effect is dominating in late game, but how often do you see a game that goes pass turn 9?

Now that Variax costs 1 more, meaning that the altered BBS requires 1 more turn to be in effect. The nerf is well done - no more and no less.

2 Likes
#21

I suppose it could be anti control tech, but aggro destroys Variax, since it wins early and can take advantage of the massive amount of tempo you sacrifice to play the card. You can’t really tech in an 8 mana card, if you aren’t playing a control deck the game should be over before then anyways. If you are, Variax is probably your wincon, not a tech.

#22

That’s a lot of slaps, considering that she has 12 wrists.

I’ll see myself out.

12 Likes
#23

In extreme cases I totally support nerfing cards into oblivion for this reason. Variax is one such case.
The mana cost change will help a little but I can totally see new players still rage quiting over her

#24

Just to be clear then you don’t want the bbs to be tied to variax because she could be killed and you don’t want the bbs hiked because the value becomes poor.

I want the changes because of those reasons. Just to expand on that I think and bbs should be printable as a card that could be put in the game (ala heartseeker). The awesome bbs’ are not printable in their current states. This boggles my mind.

I agree with your breakdown on the timekeeping aspects but what it comes down to for me is if you have to choose between balancing something for competitive vs for the player base you go with the player base otherwise no one’s going to play your game. I can play bad decks and have fun but I can’t play bad decks into variax. This is bad.

Slow control metas suck I agree.

#25

I agree the game should be balanced for the player base, but it should be balanced both ways. I understand that that’s what you want for Variax, but my point is that if that’s what happens Variax becomes unplayable. Why it’s unplayable when those changes are implemented is what I already discussed, but it comes down to the card having no immediate value. Very few cards without immediate or unconditional value are considered strong.

Awesome BBS as a card would be super neat, and add a whole other kind of archetype to Abyssian. Hopefully wouldn’t be too weak.

#26

I think the change is perfect. Anything more would have destroyed the card, and now it should no longer be too overwhelming at lower levels.

As it stands, I think Nosh-rak, Embla and Zendo are all better ways to close out the game, as they are answer or die, not ‘answer or possibly die in two or three turns.’

#27

To be fair Variax isn’t ‘answer or possibly die in two or three turns.’ it’s ‘kill me now or face the swarm, btw check out my stormmetal golem :wink:.’ This is my big beef with the card.

I agree that Nosh and Zendo are better finishers but atleast you can answer them.

#28

Isn’t this kind of a semantic difference? Yes, you may be able to occasionally remove the other grandmasters without consequences, and they have no everlasting effect, but it’s more likely they’ll kill you off immediately. Don’t you feel you have a lot more room to come up with answers in the extra time Variax gives you?

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#29

Variax nerf doesn’t solve the problem duelyst has with the lategame. This patch seemes to me somewhat temporary, it shows how much work they have with new mode and mobile release. But I like where are they going. I like every change that slowes down a game though.

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#30

good thought

fifteen characters

#31

Your suggestions kill a perfectly fine card.

Variax is a powerful late game play, and that is exactly what it should be. Lategame duelyst is supposed to be two mages using everything they got. It is where the big comboriffic plays happen. Variax is certainly one of those.

The key thing here is that variax is also really slow in that it will take a full turn before you can make use of its effect. Meanwhile, the 8/8 body is nice, but it does not compare to what other things you can get at that cost. It will remain a killer for slow decks that lack a good endgame strategy.

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#32

I don’t see how it is a slap on wrist,It went from being ramp out on 5 to 6 .It probably goes from being able to play it in any Abyss deck to only being able to play in only in ramp decks.

The inevitable win condition is only a issue early when brought out just slight later it is big deal.Before it was

Turn 5-Varaix
Turn 6 Awesome BBS
Turn 7-Oh crap your in trouble

Now it is

Turn 6-Variax
Turn 7-Awesome BBS
Turn 8- Which one of us is going die.

Like it or not duelyst games end around 6 to 8 mana alot. Two slow turns at 6 and 7 is not a good thing ,They are going to be a alot of sad Abyss players dying before they get to attack with their wraithlings now

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#33

I think that Variaxs Nerf is bad designed. Now its too slow, i prefer revenant over her 100%. The only 8 mana cards that are playable are obliterate and spiral tecnique because they are game ending cards. Upping the cost of awesome bbs to 5 mana would make the card more fair and still playable.

#34

My first impression so far is this is more significant than people think. I have been playing Variax since it was released and obviously there were some bad match ups against aggro. Even against some control opponents it was too slow prior to the nerf. Now a match against magmar or tempo Argeon is almost a forgone conclusion and the control decks that it was good against now have an extra turn to find their finisher which quite frankly happens a lot. Whybot and Mathspy basically hit the nail on the head with their comments. If you are losing to Variax consistently at this point it isn’t Variax that is the issue.

Truthfully I was considering going with Meltdown control Fae anyway as it felt more consistent, but now it just seems obviously better.

3 Likes
#35

Exactly, now you ramp It out at 6 mana or its a Dead card

1 Like
#36

You do have alot more time but there is only one answer, win.