Vanar:should their removal be nerfed?


#1

Aspect and chromatic are overpowered…no doubt.But every faction has those op cards(makantor,holy immolation,…)
The problem is that while vanar has all that cheap removal,they cant get strong minions.Its simply not balanced to give a faction both cheap removal and strong board presence(arcanyst vanar will certainly be targeted next patch)
Im certain that after the next patch vanars boardpresence wil be terrible as it should be with all that removal in their deck ,but is it realy right to make a faction that way?variety is nice and all but making vanar a ,antifunfaction, ,a faction which is just about bothering your opponent insted of working towards own objectives(arcanysts show again that vanar is op with own boardpresence) is kinda questionable design in my opinion.
So should vanar remain the antifunfaction or finaly take a hit into their undercosted removal so that CP can actualy give them good minions without making them broken (like now)


#2

I’d say the existence of abudant removals became Vanar’s main identity. However, it’s quite too powerful and with Neutral minions in mind, one easily raises up to the top.


#3

oh thank god it’s not just complaining

Short answer: I don’t think so.
Long answer: Vanar was balanced prior to the most recent patch, which didn’t (unless you include mana deathgrip, which is still pretty broken just not for being removal specifically) give them any new viable removal options, but the cards added pushed them to the top. What I’d do is nerf the card(s) which are the root of the problem. First of all, circulus and blue conjourer should not trigger off of BBS. This makes them far too strong as cards that are already decent without that ability, as vanar’s previous main problem was that they had next to nothing in terms of draw, mainly relying on cantrips and neutral draw which made spamming spells not a great idea. Even after this, I think circulus would still be too strong, so I’d make it at least a 3 mana 1/4. This would probably not be enough to knock faie off her high horse, however. This is all I’ve got off the top of my head, if I think of anything else I’ll edit it in.


#4

I’m not a Vanar player, but I like having a real control faction​ in the game. It may not be fun for everyone, but hey, other people don’t like get tons of burst damage to the face and other ones hate beefy minions, yet Songhai and Lyonar are still around. The removals of Vanar have already been nerfed, I don’t think further interventions by the devs are really needed.

On a side note, strong removals are part of the Vanar identity, but only in its latest iterations. Vanar used to be an aggro faction for a while, then something changed in the mind of the devs. I believe that reduced or confusing faction identities may be even more harmful than a few balancing issues on the long run. This does indeed intersect with balancing: if all factions had a clear identity, it would be easier to introduce new cards for them without breaking balance.


#5

Proposed thread name change:

Should Vanar’s Removal be Removed?

Thank you for your time.


#6

Tbh i don’t consider Aspect or CC overpowered at all.

Aspect turns an enemy into a 3/3 which equals 6 face damage. Turning it into a 3/3 means two things. 1. As the Vanar player you still have a serious issue to deal with -> you have to trade in further cards/mana/health to remove the minion. 2. There is no point using fox on most 2 or 3 drops, it’s a dead card in the early and only really useful later on against fat shit. Yes it gets better the bigger it’s target is but given the downsides it has i find that pretty fair.

CC is even less of a problem. 2 damage and a dispel is nice but again it’s not solving any problems on it’s own. So you CCd an Aymara. Good for you. But there is still a 5/3 standing in your face. Its decent against understated support minions like Kelaino but that’s pretty much it.

If there is a card in Vanar right now that I think is problematic then it’s Mana death grip. Ping + permanent Manaboost for 1 mana is a bit too much. Giving Vanar ramp is ok, it allows them to play control and speed up their win cons. But such a strong effect for so little mana is a bit too generous, especially when combined with Circulus. Normally MDG would have the “down side” of burning cards very fast. With Circulus this weakness is gone completely. Maybe both cards on their own would be ok, but giving Vanar both is crazy.

They should either up MDG to 2 Mana or remove the ping. The card would still be absolutely playable. People have been playing chrystal whisp before MDG was introduced and that card is far worse than a 2 Mana MDG would be.


#7

Strong single target removal poor aoe removal was Vanar identity for most of the time in duelyst.Which was why Jax Trusight use to murder vanar in the past.Then Duelyst devs added Skorn,Frostburn and Enfeeble which close up Vanar biggest weakness.

Then in the latest expansion they got card called Circulus(and blue conjurer) which gave Vanar a replace card draw engine.Getting rid of second big weakness of Vanar.Only one major weakness lack of healing remains for Vanar and Vanar has been given a lot mitigation tools in stuns and shroud so while you don’t heal you can not take damage so it is decent in that area.

So understanding those things you understand what needs to happen .Vanar needs a “CLEAR” weakness because if they were to make a decent neutral heal Vanar decks would have no weaknesses. If you think Vanar doesn’t need any changes you are fooling yourself, Vanar has the best single target removal,the best ramp,the very good card draw ,good aoe removal all in one build. Is nerf the single target removal the answer I don’t know but something needs to be toned down


#8

I dont think their removal is op. Really like the idea of arcanysts abilities not being able to activate with bbs. Owlbeast too :smiley:


#9

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