Unpopular opinions

[zerounderscoreou]

You are so limited in your choices assuming you want to make a competitive deck that 60% of the cards in any given deck for any given faction will be the same.

This is what @tsevech was originally saying, IMO. But it’s not a problem of limited card choice - there’s almost a thousand of them. It’s precisely problem of powercreep, where 60% of any deck are same powerful staples.

If overpowered interactions come up they can just be nerfed and that’s it.

Rly? You haven’t been here long enough or what? CPG don’t nerf stuff. It’s their thing and they stick to it even when it’s bad for the game. Last nerf happened with the release of new exp, so basically they changed new cards when they became old cards and even that change was questionable.

[baharoth]

This is what @tsevech was originally saying. But it’s not a problem of limited card choice - there’s almost a thousand of them. It’s precisely problem of powercreep, where 60% of any deck are same powerful staples.

I don’t know what your definition of powercreep is, but if a core card like Makantor is the best card Magmar has even after 5 expansions, and if i can make an S-tier deck without even using expansion cards then this is for me a clear sign that we don’t have powercreep. To me powercreep means that new cards push older cards out of viability but this isn’t the case in Duelyst. Most of the faction slots that have been filled by new cards by now were simply empty before because there was nothing for these slots. Good core cards after release are still good to this very day.

Rly? You haven’t been here long enough or what? CPG don’t nerf stuff. It’s their thing and they stick to it even when it’s bad for the game. Last nerf happened with the release of new exp, so basically they changed new cards when they became old cards and even that change was questionable.

If you want to critizise CPGs balance policy that’s fine with me, i have plenty of issues with it myself. But i also have to say, they got much better at it by now. The nerf to Rebuke and Finality came fairly quick and was reasonable, both cards are still playable. But even if there were no sign of improvement on that front, just putting your head in the ground and telling them to only print garbage cards in the future to avoid getting more and potentially more powerful interactions/cards in the future isn’t a solution. If this game is to succeed they have to give us more toys AND make sure those toys aren’t broken/fix them when they are. This isn’t Hearthstone, Blizzard might get away with making a shitty game because their fanbase is so huge, CPG won’t and personally i think they’ve been on a good way lately.

[zerounderscoreou]

I don’t know what your definition of powercreep is

Maybe “powercreep” is not the best term here, but if your perception of balance was true, there wouldn’t be a problem of staple cards. There’s plenty of cards in Duelyst already, if all of them were balanced you could choose from the whole card pool instead of small selection of best cards.

Also, don’t mix good cards and OP cards. What I was saying is that OP card doesn’t not necessary have direct power. I don’t understand why you try to interpret it as “there should not be good cards”.

[baharoth]

if all of them were balanced you could choose from the whole card pool instead of small selection of best cards.

Well that’s the thing, “if they were balanced” they are obviously not. About 50-60% of the cards in this game are too bad to ever see any use. That’s my point further up, i don’t want more Josekis, Fountains and Rooks. I want more good cards but with different angles. For each mana slot we could have some cards that fit well in aggro, some fit into midrange, some into control.

The real problem with Warbeast and some other cards is that they are designed in a way where they fit perfectly into all 3 archetypes and yes that’s a bad thing and i don’t want more cards like that since that is limiting choices as well.

The best solution for us would obviosly be if CPG went and buffed all the bad cards to levels where they could compete. But let’s be realistic here, that’s not going to happen. CPG wants to sell cards so if they are going to increase the overall card pool quality they will do so by introducing new cards instead of buffing old ones because that’s how they earn their money.

Also, don’t mix good cards and OP cards. What I was saying is that OP card doesn’t not necessary have direct power. I don’t understand why you try to interpret it as “there should not be good cards”.

What’s good and what’s op is entirely subjective. If they add good cards some of them will eventually end up being op for some people thats inevitable. Question is what to do about that? My take would be to release the good cards and nerf them if they end up being op for whatever reason (to good on their own or too good in combination with others).

Your take is well, what exactly? To me it seems like you want them to pretty much stop printing new cards because they might be OP and CPG is so bad at balancing, but at the same time you want them to buff all the old ones so everything is balanced? How can they ever do that succesfully if they are so bad at balancing? And even if they manage to do that, then what? Wait until CPG is bankrupt because they can’t earn any money that way?

[zerounderscoreou]

Your take is well, what exactly?

My take is that you shouldn’t say something like

There is literally no powerincrease in IV compared to UP.

because powercreep is there. It may not be noticeable if comparing cards one by one, but seen if looking at full picture. That was my only point in this discussion.

My opinion is not that 60% of cards are too bad but that 40% of cards are too good. Ideally, I want everything to be balanced. Probably I would agree on balancing to either side of this divide. Then we’d have a completely balanced game to play & play & play and CPG would be earning money on cosmetics and occasional new balanced expansions. I don’t think they intend to achieve it, but that’s not the point here, again, point is let’s not say there’s no powercreep.

Also, CPG aren’t bad at balancing in general - they are bad at nerfing.

[baharoth]

because powercreep is there. It may not be noticeable if comparing cards one by one, but seen if looking at full picture. That was my only point in this discussion

Well not by my definition. Even looking at full decks or the meta as a whole. Are IVs Lost in the Desert decks and Burn Faie decks stronger than UPs Azure Summoning and Wall Vanar builds? I’d argue they are not. Also, as i said above, as long as good cards from the core set remain good, aka the overall powerceiling doesn’t rise, there is no powercreep (again by my understanding of powercreep). Adding more cards on the more or less same powerlevel isn’t powercreep imo, it’s just diversifying options.

My opinion is not that 60% of cards are too bad but that 40% of cards are too good.

Is the glass half full or half empty, that’s a philosophical question. Imo it’s fine either way, buff the 60% or nerf the 40%.

[tsevech]

We may speculate on which deck is strongest among those you mention, but the problem I see (call it “power creep” just for simplicity) is that the average deck faced on ladder has become stronger, due to the presence of multiple strong cards which require very specific answers and pushed synergies over the top.

This is bad to me, because it pushes the outcome of the game more towards card draw / matchup / deck building rather than proper piloting. I don’t want to say no skill is required to pilot decks, just that the same player is now going to win / lose quite more than before purely based on luck and deck choice.

[baharoth]

You literally repeated your statement from above without providing any reasoning, examples or anything to support your claim.

Well I stick with what i said, the average powerlevel hasn’t really changed with IV. I’d argue it even declined because pretty much all the good UP decks got nerfed and the builds replacing them are comparably weaker imo. Nobody would play Burn Faie or Lost Vet if Azure Summoning and Wall Vanar hadn’t been nerfed.

The fact that your having more trouble now can have dozens of reasons. Splitting the community among 2 ladders. Your long inactivity causing your skill to decline. Issues on your end to adapt to the different meta. The fact that your trying to climb in the first half of the month (from what i remember in UP you started going for diamond later in the month). God knows what’s the issue.

I can’t possibly say i share your experience. I can literally pick my Shimzar Obelysk deck, ladder with it and it will perform just as well as it did through Shimzar. Yes, it’s even using Pax and Nimbus.

[project2el]

I agree with baharoth. If we look at the full Collection we can see that basically all factions have good high cost minions (5 mana and above) but very few have a good amount of viable 2 and 4 drops. This should be addressed not by printing insane neutral minions Like thorn. Instead give all faction Solid options

[chrishaehnel]

• this topic has derailed.

[epicflygon]

• This thread is definitely on the rails.

[johnbob78]

Unpopular Opinion:
People don’t seem to understand the definition of unpopular.

[halcyon98]

This thread has become the next off-topic thread.

[epicflygon]

well… we already have 100 posts…

Alright, let’s post our “unpopular opinions” here and it’s either that or it’s the thread being bumped.

[isgopet]

Wasn’t BoA from RotB tho?

[elPatoPoderoso]

They moved it to core.

[improbableblob]

it was AB

[epicflygon]

it was UP

[excogitator]

[thematsjo]

Oh and, what was that again? Guess your rules apply only to others?

Could you quote me trying to stop you from talking about the things you want to talk about? I’m having trouble finding it. Also, rules?

I think I’m going to just stop trying to be on good terms with, you seem to be bent on an antagonistic relationship with me .

@excogitator, do you mind this thread being off topic at this point?