Duelyst Forums

Tired of having 0 chances against Magma, imho it needs some balancing, what do u duelysts think?

#1

So i play Lilithe, and it was already difficult in general terms, feeling that other races like Vanar have better chances against me… but hey, at least i could do something w the phantasm and rush cards. Now u nerf the phantasm but u keep all the other op races the same… it’s like bullying the kid that has a protesic leg…

The 4/4 rush + frenzy card is insane if u play little minions, just stop and multiply the dmg u get w 1 single card, if u have 3 minions (which is pretty common) and the champ next to them (which is all the damn time) u get 24dmg w rush in a single card… even if its a 6 mana… make it a 7 and it’s still op… And EVERY deck of magma has 3 of those… guess why? i suggest to make it a 3/3 or just forget that frenzy + rush thingie because its ridiculous.

and also… all those rebirth cards… some of them are just too much… like how do u deal w that in a regular basis… the ragebinder… 3-4 w rebirth for 3 mana!! so i can drop in turn 2 one of those on the mana square and also a Rex wich is 3-1 w rebirth… turn 2. How do u deal with these… I need a deck full of dispels just to play against Magma to even have a chance…

Seriously… i win one out of 8 games against decent Magmas… And i was… Rank 3 last season… it’s not like my deck sucks

#2

First of all magmar, they have a name, they won’t ever nerf makantor and the devs said it on stream, the only thing remotely strong about magmar is ragnora every other general is bad accept vaath which is a decent antimeta pick.

Just make ripper a 3/1 with rebirth and “can move Twice”

Then magmar is fair again.

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Problem child commmunity, where u release your salt about your game
#3

swarm lilithe is not very good, magmar has lots of good cards, that 4/4 rush guy is their best card, you need to position your minions so that they don’t get all hit at once, cuz you know every deck has one.

The general thing about rebirth: Don’t kill them until you can kill the egg. They can’t do much with a 2/1 young silithar because it will die if they attack with it.

phantasm was one of the most broken cards, it could win games for 2 mana

sounds like you need to adapt

edit: We are not called duelysts, we are called steves

just to be clear

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#4

not on the deck anymore, guess why. it sucks now.

well it’s their best card but it’s not even a legendary, my best minion card on Abyss it’s the Spectral Revenant, costs 1 more, it’s a legendary and it’s not that useful. how is that not unbalanced?

#5

Spectral revenant is also up there with makantor, it’s insane

You toss it out, clear a threat, deal 4 damage to general, and then they have to get it dead next turn with a spell or effect because if they attack it they take 4+ damage

#6

I’m having a somewhat hard time taking this seriously. The meta can’t be analyzed by juxtaposing two cards, it is obviously much more comprehensive than that. You make it seem like all Magmar decks are 39 Makantors, and all Abyssian decks are 39 Revenants.

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#7

Swarm is one of the hardest to play archetypes, and it’s always been counter or loose. Magmar just happens to counter it well. Magmar is a pretty balanced faction, although they are starting to do well since everyone else keeps getting nerfed and they stay steady.

If your playing hyper Swarm you just have to accept you will have some bad matchups. But if you go a little more midrange Swarm and make sure you include things like Grimwar and maybe shadow dancer it becomes a lot harder to counter. I have quite a few good examples on my master thread:

Between the patch, new generals, and the incoming xpac most of the thread needs updating, but Swarm shouldent change to much. Budget Swarm is strong, but it will always have bad matchups, to cover those weakness requires quite the investment as abyss is notoriously expensive to. It’s certainly my favorite faction, and I always like to encourage Abyss players, but it’s not very new player friendly and requires more commitment then most factions.

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#8

If your opponent hit’s more than 2 units with a Warbeast then this is entirely your fault and you have no basis for complaints.

Rex is a complete shit card, don’t know why you even mention this. Ragebinder is ok but unless you always kill him and leave the Egg in place to rehatch he isn’t a problem either.

Honestly, there may be good arguments for Magmar to be too strong, but yours aren’t among them. Lilith, even Swarm Lilith is certainly not Tier 1 atm but easily Tier 2. If you lose 7 out of 8 games against Magmar then this is most likely due to your playing errors, not because of either of the factions is too weak/strong

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#9

If you want my help I offer to watch one of your defeats against Magmar and do a video analysis. Maybe we can improve the deck and the gameplay.

I am more than willing to help you, just tell me :slight_smile:

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#10

Some deck are just not good against another type. Like i tried aggro Songhai to face Heal Ziran, i will never win. (There is a chance, but it’s small).

Take a rest if you have loses streak, 2/3 days ago i had 10 loses streak and ofcourse i was mad. Then i closed the game, cameback at midnight and play again got 9 win streaks. Sometimes when we mad, there will be alot of misplay.

Try different deck, different faction, don’t just stick with one. Like how i always play Songhai, now trying Lyonar and magmar and got a pretty good winrate, now i’m in Diamond at 3rd day.

:slightly_smiling_face:

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#11

well at least there’s one constructive reply, thanks deathsadvocate. What im saying here i think is legit. I’m not saying that… drop this card but forget the others… My point is… some cards are clearly op in terms of… u don’t need to combo them, they always work… op cards are great but u gotta give them some sort of condition to be filled… u can’t just drop a 4/4 frenzy w rush… it just makes some playstyles unplayable… what’s the point of the game if one playstyle becomes invalid…

y and to the guy that said if u drop more than 2 units its ur fault… i said i play Lilithe… i mean… and i have to hear this silly geniuses calling me dumb on top of it XD

edited

#12

His point is you can position in such a way that frenzy can not hit more then two targets. Its one of the many reasons that playing swarm is hard to do because it has the most positioning and micro decisions of any archtype.

I can assure you that makantor can indeed be played around and while the card is a powerful staple of the faction, its not an issue, it just takes a lot of practice to play around it, and again if you include things like grimwar often he wont even have the option to play it.

Yea makantor is overpowered. This is not a bad thing, every faction has powerhouse staples that give them their identity. Magmar has lavalasher and Makantor, Abyss has Desolator and Revenant. Desolator is your highest priority craft as it will make any Abyss deck better and its a very good counter to magmar to.

And again every deck will have good and bad matchups, magmar just happens to be this ones worst.

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#13

It’s not that simple… saying that u can constantly avoid an aspect of the ravager + thunderhorn combo or a makantor while ur playing Lilithe just by positioning it’s just unrealistic, but y i get ur point. And how do u play grimwar against magmar if u have to clear the board bcause of his low cost cards and put some minions on top to make that grimwar even worthy… where do u get the mana from? easy to say… but in practical terms, very hard to acomplish…

to me it feels like some mechanics are against the game itself, understanding that u should achieve succes by good strategies not by I throw op cards that don’t even need combination and clear the board at 1 turn. It just takes the fun away.

Seems like the devs love those winner cards… Why don’t nerf them a little so we don’t have to stick to one playstyle because it’s the only one that rly works with X race

#14

Yes, AoE counters swarm; it’s an obvious fact. Instead of straightforward complaining, you should find a way to play around it. Also, I can’t understand why do you hate Mankantor specifically. Following your logic regarding swarm decks, Tempest should also be equally overpowered.

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#15

Heal Zir’an is also insanely OP when I’m playing Burn Songhai.

Jokes aside, Magmar has excellent tools to deal with Swarm strategies in Makantor Warbeast and Plasma Storm, making them a natural counter to your deck. It’s suggest playing a different archetype as well so you don’t base your perception of Magmar solely on an uphill match up.

I believe you’ll find that Starhorn and Vaath are middle of the pack at the moment while Ragnora hasn’t really hit her stride yet.

That aside, there probably are adjustments you could make to your deck to shore up the Magmar match up, but knowing your current deck list might come in handy there.

Now, a few words about Makantor Warbeast. It is the faction’s dominant staple but it also is a six mana minion. As great as it is at clearing a bunch of 1/1 or 2/2 Wraithlings, do consider that the average minion in that price range is not a 1/1 or 2/2 Wraithling; it isn’t the unconditional board wipe you seem to think it is considering that you’ll face many a minion that’s x/5 or greater at that stage of the game. This isn’t to say that MWB isn’t exceedingly powerful. It is, which is why it makes it into every Magmar list. Still, your are evaluating it solely based on being countered by it.

And lastly, cards like MWB, Plasma Storm, Frostburn and Tempest exist for a reason. They are designed to counter swarms, so the bottom line is, the card is working as intended.

Now, personally, I’d probably play some aggro Cassy instead of swarm. Play it well and you’ll see that Abyssian can do very well. But you already ruled out the possibility that the issue at hand stems from you or your deck in your opening post so I guess giving advice is just wasted effort at this point, right?

#16

You can equip Grimwar defensively. Throw a couple minions down in front of you before 5 mana, and play Grimwar. Now he can’t safely wipe your field because lillithe will turn into a monster. Magmar, Vaath in particular, has a tough time dealing with artifacts so it’s a very good counter.

#17

Our poor Lilithe has gotten bullied by Magmar since beta, my friend, and swarm all but truly died when Skorn was released. The ONLY swarm that’s playable is swarm with the ability to kill your opponent by 4-6 mana.

There are some playable Lilithe decks, I played her to S, but you have to play around Makantor, don’t BBS before his Makantor turn and give it a target.

#18

To piggy back on this, aggressively build your swarm the first few turns then buff one with deathwatch +2/+2 to sacrifice them all for very meaty damage before Makantor can even come out. Then after that just play with your minions diagonal and finish off with things like revenant or desolator.

The fact that most of these key cards are legendary is a bit of a pain, but if you want to play the archetype you like while still being competitive, you will need to support of cards like these.

Edit: also keep a look out for flash Makantor at 4 mana. and plasma storm at 5. Its these reasons why it’s so important to always be ready for your opponent to have an answer and think “how am I going to build up after, or finish him before then?”

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#19

Mind posting your deck onto here (and maybe a replay while you’re at it)? It’ll make this argument go much more smoothly if we could see what you’re doing.

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#20

Not agreeing with your concerns =/= Not constructive criticism.
Of interest, I see you created this account just to complain about this; not sure of the significance, but hey.
In relation to this though, two things are necessary to provide advice on how to improve your play style against Magyar; you Deck list and, much more unlikely, how you play against Magmar.