Thunderhorn everywhere! Salt thread

[alplod]

I have issues wih thunderhorn.

Playing against Kaleos/Reva? Thunderhorn+assasination protocol.

Playing against Vanar? Aspect + Thunderhorn.

Playing against Vet? Thunderhorn or Lost in Desert - choose your poison.

Since I was playing mostly Lilithe recently, every match becomes a game of drawing Banishing before they hit with Thunderhorn, and even then often the combo can’t be counterplayed, cause it’s out of hand.

For those telling me to counterplay it by clever positioning, I would like to remind you that Lilithe should have swarm on board. No chance.

Well, I’ll be using my “fun and interactive” lists then, they don’t need to worry about this damned neutral.

P.S. And yeah, I also often just misplay into Thunderhorn. Very often. Still don’t think that the bare existance of this minion ingame should imply awkward positioning in all games against, say, Hai and Vanar. And I have no idea how to play against Vet.

[snowshot]

I’m sorry i can’t follow - you say thunderhorn is bad when abyss running gate decks?

Besides - thunder is a counter to swarm by defenition.

[kirabi]

I would like to remind you that Lilithe should have swarm on board

Who told you that lie.That is your big mistake

[alplod]

I’m sorry i can’t follow - you say thunderhorn is bad when abyss running gate decks?

I’m saying Thunderhorn is bad whenever. It’s just another Kron.

Who told you that lie.

Her BBS.

But seriously, I understand that I just shouldn’t play swarm Lilithe. Or at least non aggro swarm Lilithe. I understand, it’s my problem, that damned neutral card, which is everywhere, is making an archetype which never was too powerful or top tier completely obsolete.

Too bad it happens to be my favourite playstyle. But yeah, it’s my problem. Everybody is playing gate Lilithe after all.

[tsevech]

The amount of salt these days is high, even for unsuspicious players. I guess we do have a problem with the meta…

[alplod]

Everybody has his own Nemesis. Mine is thunderhorn

[kirabi]

I have seen people playing swarm with some levels of success. Here is what you need understand

Vet-Bad class Aoe
Songhai- Average class Aoe
Vanar-with the nerf of Frost Burn. Average class aoe

You are only looking at from your faction’s perspective they have prep for swarm using the best tool available to them.You are looking at it wrong you have 1 job (actually two) .Remove Thunderhorn.When you build a deck should be able remove Thunderhorn or neutralize it. If Ritual banishing is your only answer then you are doing something wrong.Your second job is be able to reload your board after Thunderhorn wipes your board. Thats is your deck building puzzle.

Something being everywhere is not a problem in a card game.That is a predictable piece that you should be exploiting.

[alplod]

A very reasonable approach. Still if you didn’t manage to remove thunderhorn you have no hope of rebuilding your swarm - it’s the main problem.

Frostburn, Skorn, Ghost lighning, Thunderbomb, Star’s fury all remove your swarm - and then you just try to make another one. Against Thunderhorn you should remove it AND rebuild your swarm which is impossible early game. It’s just a huge tempo loss.

[seraphicreaper]

You are directly missing the issue with TH and with @alplod’s OP.

As @snowshot said, TH is a counter to swarm by definition. And that’s fine. The important point is in the combo cards that exist to allow TH to immediately counter the swarm archetype.

You are only looking at from your faction’s perspective they have prep for swarm using the best tool available to them.You are looking at it wrong you have 1 job (actually two) .Remove Thunderhorn.When you build a deck should be able remove Thunderhorn or neutralize it.

When the previously mentioned combos are played, this IS NOT an option. You can’t do anything except eat it. TH+combo card = the upgraded Skorn, which was also made as a counter to the older swarm that had ping health. And thus we see the effects of the CPG approach (not saying good or bad, but just visible evidence).

[alplod]

You are directly missing the issue with TH and with @alplod’s OP.

To be honest, not completely. I was always tilted by thunderhorn. New cards just made it worse.

[cloudfrog]

maaan I just surrender when shimzar+THorn Combo happens. I have no idea how to recover from that at all.

[tsevech]

Fair enough, but it seems to me that the number of “personal nemesis” is becoming so high that the number of unfun cards and interactions is likely getting out of control. There are obviously too many cards which are annoying to play against, which is turning the game in a Hearthstone-style clownfiesta. I’m quite worried about this

[snowshot]

I have to disagree with you on one or maybe two things.
One - as for now all of vanar’s aoe are 6 mana.
Th+aos, dasher+boundless courage and frostborn.
Six mana is when you want to have your answers in hand ready for other threats including thunderhorn.
Second - isn’t what you say is the problem with every card with a decent effect? Remove it then rebuild again, this is how swarm works, if not it’s just a huge board full of minion that will at some pointl kill your opponent for example - gate.
Gate is the definition of unheathly swarm, that’s why this crucial.

Btw - as a player who runs niche decks - i never had a problem with thunderhorn.

[kirabi]

I very much understand the issue of Thunderhorn.I play Swarm Brome quite a bit. So in the spirit of full disclosure I think wraithling swarm is stupidly designed archetype on that depends on 1/1 minions to hold a board but i have already done that discussion before no need to do it again.

Now I have watched over the last couple days a couple of Swarm Abyss players playing some decks and they were beating some fairly competitive decks. Notably they beat the current Sauiran Finality vaath which has Rebuke,Plasma Storm,Mankantor Warbeast.I try to avoid taking the angle of players whine and complain too much in this topic but somehow these guys are where successful.

When I first started this game as Magmar player added Drebzo(who had 30 Magmar ribbons) . When I couldn’t figure out what decks worked I would just look at his games and see what he was playing. I saw how he dealt with certain issues and i saw what decks played. Yes Thunderhorn is an issue but my eyes aren’t deceiving me,I see good players winning playing swarm.

[alplod]

Remove it then rebuild again, this is how swarm works,

if you didn’t manage to remove thunderhorn you have no hope of rebuilding your swarm - it’s the main problem.

tadums. 15char.

[alplod]

Aggro swarm works perfectly. More midrange variants do not. Gates are another story.

Edit. Actually Thunderhorn is completely not an issue for viable gate decks. They may not run swarm elements at all.

[luminis]

Same issue as always.

Even if the combo isn’t all that broken, the simple fact that you have zero ability to react to anything that doesn’t require at least an additional turn of setup feels weird from a design standpoint. This isn’t just the case with TH but with other combos that currently see play as well.