Thought process behind the "most idiotic play of all time"

[jernat]

I recently made a very questionable play(s) in-game and thought it might be a good idea to have a discussion on decision-making in that context.

Here’s some background:

I was queuing for a ranked game when i got unwittingly matched up with a certain streamer (I later found out he was one win away from hitting S when we got matched up).

I was player 1. In my opening hand was an Earth Sphere, Greater Fortitude, Thumping Wave, Elucidator and Makantor Warbeast.

I mulligan-ed the ES and GF and RNGsus gave me Keeper of the Vale and Plasma Storm. With no foreseeable potent plays by turn 3 (dropping Elu when Wallnar will almost certainly amass a board is nigh suicide) I decided to replace the Elu and get… Chrysalis Burst. That was just as bad imo.

I end the first turn by moving 2 forward and drawing an Egg Morph. Below is how the start of my second turn looked like AFTER replacing the Burst:

I felt I had two options then after striking a well: pass the turn and waste a card OR cast Thumping Wave… on the Snow Chaser. I decided on the latter. Yes, that’s probably the worst Thumping Wave utilisation you’ve ever heard of.

Back then, I had two on-the-fly reasons for TW-ing the Chaser. First was that I valued the card draw far more than saving the Wave. I was fishing for - in order of importance - Flash Reincarnation, Taygete or Saberspine Tiger. At the time I thought drawing Earth Sphere then would just prolong the inevitable. In the end I did NOT draw what I was looking for, but the idea is that i wanted to avoid the possibility of milling any of the crucial cards I needed at the time. Because if that did happen and I milled, say, a Flash, despite me running three copies the chances of me drawing/replacing into another one would roughly be (i think) significantly less than 1 in 5. I was playing with probability, basically. There are some instances were my hand would be better so milling a card would be more feasible, but I don’t think this particular scenario was one of them.

The second reason was that, in my experience, Snow Chaser can generate a lot of value over time either through trickling down you or your minions health or - more importantly - serve as a cheap body blocker can make it hard to position efficiently or deliver the killing blow. So I decided to risk taking 3-6 damage instead. Besides, if I drew into Taygete I could have capitalised on the bunnies depending on how my opponent positions his board/himself and/or if I replaced into Flash on turn 3.

If you were in my shoes, what would you have decided? Would you have replaced differently before the match began? Let me know XD

Apologies if this is considered a dumb post, just thought it might be worth sharing. Happy gaming!

[qeltar]

I think your decision was reasonable. Especially with that setup, the Chaser could be a real nuisance, constantly dropped back in your face. Though you pretty nearly guaranteed you’d take 6 damage as a result and lose the Thumping.

I probably would have played it differently myself. You’re playing a fairly slow deck and Faie has become notorious for Gravity Well shenanigans.

In that situation I play full defense, on the back line. I use removals when I can, play minions when possible, and don’t worry about milling cards. I wait until 5 mana, wipe all the garbage, and then the real game begins. Sometimes this backfires… usually it doesn’t.

BTW I now run Iridium Scale in my control deck. It helps a lot with stuff like this.

[mrenderman]

Well, this post seems worthwhile. I myself run a Keeper magmar, in fact, it’s quite the greedy list, since I don’t have any 3 or 2 drops (Ephemeral is there as an emergency escape button), and I have been in similar situations. From my point of view, thumping the snowchaser for a better hand is not a dumb idea, neither is it to thumping any early minion (say Ooz). You have tons of removal, and win conditions for days, whether it is throwing elucidators face or stalling with Earth spheres. What is important, is that you 1) Stay alive. 2) You’re opponent doesnt overrun you.

One thing I’ve learned from playing keeper, is that sometimes you get this type of undesirable hands. You just play patient, and don’t be afraid of using whatever you have if you are trading for a possible favourable position. Plus, makantor completely destroys walls, So I think you did the right thing trying to go for a Flash Reincarnation

[hackum]

It is difficult to judge what the best mulligan or replaces would have been if we do not know the deck list.

[jernat]

My bad, great point!

Here:

@mrenderman indeed these kinds of hands do surface from time to time, but I’ve learnt that even then the game is not necessarily lost. Keeper Vaath has amazing midgame potential after all. I did end up winning this particular match too, but that’s almost entirely because the opponent didn’t account for a Keeper of the Value recurring Makantor on mana tile + Greater Fortitude play on my fourth turn. (I finally replaced into a flash and dropped Makantor the turn prior) XD

[jernat]

Yes, that was the most likely scenario and I did end up taking the full 6 damage XD Thanks to him dropping Sunsteel Defender the next turn, by turn 4 I dropped to 11 health. I was at 7hp by turn 5. I almost shitted myself.

[hackum]

Your replaces and plays look valid. I would have probably done the same.

[deekester]

was the streamer mogwai? seems like the only one i know of that plays wall vanar a lot

[Aeruniel]

Why do you call it “most idiotic play of all time”? It really isn’t imo.

I made some HUGE mistakes today that easily trump it (I was severely distracted that match). Heck, it was a well-reasoned option you took, not a mistake at all. Surely mistakes are more idiotic than reasonable options.

[jernat]

I guess I should have named the topic “SEEMINGLY the most idiotic play of all time” XD

Though to be fair, it could have been a really stupid play, especially from an outside perspective. While I do think it’s unlikely, there might have been a stronger case for keeping the Wave, or that my prior replaces were far more questionable than I thought.

What compelled me to post this in the first place was that when I watched the recording of the streamer in question, there was a fair bit of commentary implying how ridiculous the play was. Granted, I didn’t feel great making the TW play either, neither am I sure if it would have made a positive difference in the long run considering how the match finally transpired.

Also, at the spur of the moment, the thought process was a far more crude version than the one stated here. I basically went “Ill cry if I mill a good card” >>> Ill smack this wall >>> Snow Chaser is annoying >>> I’ll bunny-fy Chaser! >>> GET READY FOR BUNNY MASOCHISM >>> pass the turn.

Something like that. =p

@deekester Yes.

[Aeruniel]

Though to be fair, it could have been a really stupid play, especially from an outside perspective.

What compelled me to post this in the first place was that when I watched the recording of the streamer in question, there was a fair bit of commentary implying how ridiculous the play was.

Ah that makes sense.
Yeah I had this the other day as well, júst made a completely new deck on a whim just for fun to see how ranged Magmar could maybe work, and first match with it I was opposed to Demmiremmi who was streaming.
It really does feel as if you’re caught unshaven in your pajamas at home late at night enjoying some ridiculous private experimentation and then suddenly being transported to somewhere on a stage with all your peers watching intently.

Losing doesn’t help that feeling one bit.

[jernat]

It really does feel as if you’re caught unshaven in your pajamas at home late at night enjoying some ridiculous private experimentation and then suddenly being transported to somewhere on a stage with all your peers watching intently.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

[qeltar]

Early in my “career” I tried several times to repulsor my own minion.

I saw a guy try to use Flash Reincarnation on a tiger.

I once played Chrysalis Burst with a Spirit Harvester out.

Those are just the bonehead moves that come to mind immediately.

[mrmana3]

@jernat
You had good reasoning for your decisions given the circumstances. Were it me, I too would have replaced the Greater Fortitude, but I would have chosen Earth Sphere over Makantor on the grounds that you already had Plasma Storm for AoE, and that without early-game minions, it was likely that your General would take significant damage rather quickly, and Faie can wear Generals down quicker than people may expect.

Regarding the Thumping Wave play, I think I ultimately would have done the same thing in your shoes. Using it on a Snowchaser would feel terrible, but because of the risk of milling a valuable card, I think the play was justified. Faie decks don’t typically run any minions large enough to warrant the use of a Thumping Wave anyway, and it’s true that Earth Sister Taygete or Flash Makantor could have capitalized on the board if you drew into them.

Ultimately, using the term “most idiotic play” doesn’t represent you as a player. You were just trying to make the best of a bad situation. It happens to the best of us.

[jernat]

That’s a very good point. In retrospect, I now think the ES replace was the most questionable one of the lot. Faie can make very aggressive early game plays that can sometimes give the pre-nerf Aggro Reva a run for her money. If I were playing against the latter I would have certainly kept the Earth Sphere.

I have no concrete justification for this particular ES replace other than the vague feeling that I’d rather replace into potentially synergistic cards (like a flash for Makantor) rather than stall a game with an opening hand with no cheap removals as player 1.

The bedrock of the deck is dropping value cards like Makantor/Elucidator/Taygete early then Keeper for value, after all, so I was banking on making proactive plays with that in mind.