Duelyst Forums

Thinking of a possible Duelyst MOBA concept


#1

Yep… I’m currently creating a potential concept of MOBA based in Duelyst. It’s still heavily WIP, but I’m trying to finish the project. It doesn’t mean I’ll create an actual game, but I think it would be fun to imagine a MOBA with your favorite factions.


I currently have made six roles that heroes will be categorized into based on which role will suit best for them. My concept also includes abilities, and some of abilities aren’t actually limited to one hero - there are plenty for each faction that every hero can choose during the pick phase.

There are differend maps with differend goals that will give you the win, be it capturing the point in the enemy base or defeating a boss that regenerates health rapidly if not damaged after a certain amount of time. But all maps will have 3 lanes with 3 towers in each lane, and after destroying a tower, your minions will get stronger.

I’m thinking if the game should not have levels. This would mean players will aquire abilities over time, and because there are no levels, that means less of solo carry potential. I’m also thinking how to implement artifacts, my current option is to give each player gold after killing a minion, a hero or a tower, so that players can buy artifacts in the shop.


What do you think?


#2

Implying an Ability Draft style but it’s your own deck? That does seem real good as an idea. thx this is my idea now lemme make new moba kthx bye

Here I think that the “your own deck” part can be applied here too, letting a player decide all tiers of minion ascension can make a really customizable game and I ABSOLUTELY love that kind of game. So it might work as your chosen progression will be for 1 minion in each lane so that all lanes have different kinds of prog.

You can go for the levels with static stats style where levels only grant ability progression, and also make abilities not scale in damage. I have seen this style work in other genres and it might not be bad for MOBA too.

I have a brilliant idea for this. You definitely keep the gold aspect of this to allow such things as in-lane networth imbalance so your carry can have more advantage. But as for artifacts themselves, they can be progressing with time, having more expensive and strong artifacts available in the shop as the game progresses. I recommend ditching recipe trees though. Also make artifacts part of the deckbuilding too. That’d be nice


#3

Separate “decks” for abilities and artifacts. As the game progresses and/or objectives are completed (destroy towers, kill players, minions deaths, game timer, ect.) stronger and stronger abilities and artifacts are unlocked.

A second deck comprised of “minions”, allowing players to customize which minions appear in each lane. So an aggressive player can have different minions in their deck compared to a more passive player. (Like Orcs Must Die! Unchained’s old PvP mode)

And maybe an exp system similar to Heroes of the Storm’s, allowing players are able to gain gold and experience from objectives completed all across the map.


#4

UPDATE 2018-12-03

I’m glad for your beautiful feedback, it means a lot. I think I’ve finally decided how to implement artifacts. Also, I think I’ll implement the level system similar to League of Legends instead unless I find a good solution to use the HotS system. But because the way I implemented artifacts, it will remove the need for gold and convince me to use HotS system more.

You can choose three artifacts during the pick phase, just like abilities. However, you don’t get them through leveling up - instead, whenever your team destroys a turret, you can choose one of your artifacts to equip. Artifacts grant you bonus stats and other effects.

Also, you will get more combat stats with each level. I’m still debatng if abilities should also scale by themselves or you should get points to aquire and upgrade them, just like in LoL. :thinking:


The rules to gain and upgrade artifacts are as follows:

  • The first tower destroyed in a lane allows you to choose an artifact. Your team needs to destroy other towers that are first in order on respective lanes.

For example, you’ve destroyed the first turret on top lane - you can choose to equip one of three artifacts. If your team then proceeds to destroy the first mid lane tower - you can choose one of the two remaining artifacts to equip.

  • Every other tower destroyed allows you to upgrade one of your artifacts you have equipped. The second tower destroyed in a lane lets you upgrade a Level 1 artifact to Level 2, and destroying the third turret in a lane lets you upgrade a Level 2 artifact to Level 3.

Regarding the possibility to customise minions, I’m not a personal fan of this idea. Imo, it creates some injustice in game. Let’s say you have characters that usually deal damage through spells, and your opposing team has chosen the minion specialization to grant them magic damage reduction. That’s not fun. So was Banner of Command in LoL. :abysspls:

I think it’s better to make all minions for both teams the same, so that everyone is playing on a more fair ground. And yes, I think it’s a good idea that minions in a lane will get bonuses like health or attack after destroying a tower. Maybe even summoning minions that deal extra damage to turrets that spawn more often in a lane for each tower destroyed in it?


#5

Snowball alert. Makes the whole game VERY push-orientated, poking/pressure archetypes become strong.

EVEN MORE snowball alert. This makes the game literally unplayable if one team has 5 poke/pushers.


#6

have you considered spawning mana globes in the middle of the map? they could be a nice incentive for engagement just like in really dooly


#7

UPDate 2018-12-05

I kinda have a little too much to handle to think about my MOBA all the time, but I did think more about artifacts. I thought about more ways to get them and that they can actually get destroyed.

My initial ideas is that you can not only aquire artifacts through towers, but you can also gain one every tenth hero your team kills. Other objectives similar to those like in DOTA or LoL would also probably grant an artifact. Probably way too snowbally to get an artifact for killing a dragon or something, but it would allow losing teams to get some bonuses if they manage to sneak the objective or steal it.

Because of more ways to get artifacts, players can actually damage the artifacts. Whenever a player with an artifact dies, they lose one upgrade.

  • If a player dies while only having one upgrade of an artifact (the base version), they just lose it and all the bonuses it granted.
  • If a player with two upgrades dies, they loose the bonuses from the 2nd upgrade, but they still keep their artifact.
  • If a player with a fully upgraded artifact dies, they lose the bonuses from the 3rd upgrade.

#8

I’ve never really analyzed the game design of mobas. how do games like dota and lol prevent snowball (or decide when reward snowball when it’s deserved)?


#9

DotA 2’s core principle of balance is to make everyone super high-powered in some form while still keeping ridiculous combos off the gameplay. LoL is just normal balancing, buffing and nerfing. Dota grants much higher gold and experience bounty to players with high kill-streaks, allowing a chance to comeback as although net-worth difference may still be there, the method of allowing a single player to get most kill bounties can still rack up items fast in the late-game allowing for comeback carries. This encourages teamfights as the winning team does not gain as much an advantage to win yet another teamfight as the losing team, which gains a huge gap closer. League doesn’t care. When a jungler snowballs it almost always signifies the start of the end-game. Dota has a very strategic teamfight-oriented playstyle whereas League ends up being which jungler can rack up the most powerful items fast. Dota hero design is a very good model of snowball balancing, as there is much more utility in most heroes in Dota than League meaning that if you can’t deal enough damage anymore you can change to a more control-orientated build in most heroes. League to me is just a good game gone bad. With god-tier cross-hero spells in League like Flash and also how the support heroes lack pure damage and the carries cannot do any good crowd control the comeback factor is minuscule.

Aside from those two, I’ve also played Mobile Legends, and it’s pretty much the same as League except that they have much better neutral objectives that help in counter-pushing. MLBB prevents snowballing too much by adding more comeback factors into the game, which isn’t bad.


#10

You can include some of these interface ideas in the game :stuck_out_tongue:


#11

UPDATE 2018-12-08

I think I’ll be ready to showcase some example abilities in the meantime. So far, I’ve done the most work on Vanar, finishing all three hero-specific abilities for three heroes and almost all artifacts except Winterblade. I need the rest of hero-specific basic abilities for the rest, aswell as ults and passives.

Also, I’ll tell you that there are six classes in my concept. You don’t need to strictly follow them because of customable abilities, but these are the suggestions of the best role a certain hero can fulfill. These classes are Marksman, Mage, Assassin, Tank, Bruiser, Support.


Marksman

A ranged character that can dish out tons of damage with basic attacks. Relatively squishy and doesn’t provide hard CC very often, but it’s the team’s main damage source in late game teamfights.

  • Lyonar: Solpiercer
  • Songhai: Xenkai Cannoneer
  • Vetruvian: Fate Watcher
  • Abyssian: Nocturne
  • Magmar: Armada
  • Vanar: Faie Bloodwing
Mage

A ranged character who deals most of their damage through spells they cast. Can deal tons of damage if you aim your skillshots well, can also provide useful CC for engagement or survivability. Relatively squishy and usually doesn’t have mobility skills, they rely on CC and other sources to outplay the divers.

  • Lyonar: Solarius
  • Songhai: Kindling
  • Vetruvian: Pyromancer
  • Abyssian: Arcane Devourer
  • Magmar: Rancour
  • Vanar: Cloudcaller
Assassin

A melee character equipped to assassinate one target in a blink of an eye. Can snowball into an ustoppable machine if the enemy isn’t watching their step. Relatively squishy and weak to lockdown, also falls off in late game.

  • Lyonar: Radiant Dragoon
  • Songhai: Kaleos Kaan
  • Vetruvian: Khanuum-Ka
  • Abyssian: Spectral Revenant
  • Magmar: Rizen
  • Vanar: Denadoro
Tank

A melee character with tons of health and other resistances. Provides a lot of CC, is mainly responsible for engaging and peeling for allies. Doesn’t deal much damage and is usually weak to kiting, but it’s one of the most important roles in the game.

  • Lyonar: Indominus
  • Songhai: Jade Monk
  • Vetruvian: Pantheran
  • Abyssian: Underlord Xor’Xuul
  • Magmar: Vaath the Immortal
  • Vanar: Draugar Eyolith
Bruiser

A melee character who has pretty high health pool. Doesn’t provide as much CC as tanks, instead makes it up with nice chunk of damage. Can clear minions better than most classes. Usually needs items to start threatening with damage.

  • Lyonar: Argeon Highmayne
  • Songhai: Grandmaster Zendo
  • Vetruvian: Zirix the Starstrider
  • Abyssian: Cacophynos
  • Magmar: Vindicator
  • Vanar: Frostiva
Support

Either a ranged or melee character. Doesn’t provide much damage, but it makes up for utility like healing allies or providing meaningful CC. Can be a squishy caster or a tanky initiator, but their pretty big lack of damage forces them to play near one of other characters who provide more damage, like Marksman.

  • Lyonar: Sunstone Templar
  • Songhai: Bakezori
  • Vetruvian: Notion of Starless Eternity
  • Abyssian: Lilithe Blightchaser
  • Magmar: Kujata
  • Vanar: Voice of the Wind

#12

Methinks Gore Horn here. Looks much tankier xd

Variax is queen <3

Smol Jata too cute t be in a fite protecc smol animals
My version puts Moloki Huntress bcuz it looks cooler


#13

I dont think Underlord qualifies as a tank, he is more of an OP support unit. I’d put Black solus/Abyssal Jugg here.

We could put starhorn here. Or make him the magmar Mage


#14

Not Sajj :rage:

How about Moloki instead?


#15

I personally tried to include all six basic heroes in the roster, but I think I might need to replace some. I also try to include these heroes in all six roles. So what about this?

  • Lyonar: Indominus (Tank) -> Brome Warcrest (Tank), Argeon Highmayne (Bruiser) -> Sunriser (Bruiser)
  • Vetruvian: Zirix Starstrider (Bruiser) -> Ciphyron Ascendant (Bruiser)
  • Abyssian: Underlord Xor’Xuul (Tank) -> Black Solus (Tank) (btw, I love the solus’ animation to the point he’ll likely be the tank)
  • Magmar: Rancour (Mage) -> Starhorn the Seeker (Mage), Vaath the Immortal (Tank) -> Juggernaut (Tank), Kujata (Support) -> Makantor Warbeast/Moloki (Support)

#16

Tried to include all the Generals, with the factions spread out as much as possible. The missing spots could be filled with faction minion cards, I felt it was more important to have the Generals as characters before the minions.

Marksman:
Reva (Ranged bangle stuff)
Cassyva (Creep debuff/damage to whittle down enemies)^
Faie (Continuous, reliable damage from Warbird)^

Mage:
Zirix (Dervish summoning)
Lilithe (Wraithling summoning)
Starhorn (Resource management with burn)
Mahv (Minions destruction/summoning, resource management: health pool and friendly minions/sac fodder)"

Assassin:
Sajj (Psionic Strike burst, Artifact/item reliant)"
Shidai (Burst from spells, gathering resources and them dumping them all at once)^

Tank:
Brome (Provoke)
Illena (CC lock down)

Bruiser:
Vaath (SMOrc, one shot capable)**
Argeon (Roar+Regalia)
Ragnora (Big guy with two swords, can summon eggs to block/distract enemies)

Support:
Kaleos (Mobility)**
Zir’an (Healing and minor attack buffs)
Kara (Big, beefy support)
Cyphron (Minion stealing and attack debuff)"

^ Could also be designed as a Mage
** Could also be designed as an Assassin
" Could also be designed as Bruiser


#17

OOORRR, make him mage and make him summon an army of rippers and a Katastrophosaurus


#18

:thonk: This seems like a very fun idea for Ragnora, althought I’d stick to 36 heroes for now. Maybe I’ll add more heroes in the future after finishing other stuff and other heroes.

I’m closer and closer to finishing Vanar. Just need to create all passives (except for Eyolith) and ults.


#19

In the sea of MOBAs i’d generally move against the FULL TEAM ACTION PACKED 5V5 GLORY as adding the deck-building component to it might be too many moving pieces.

The idea of combining Duelyst with some similar thing, however, reminds me of GG2: Overture and could be seen as a inspiration for you - despite it being closer to Dynasty Warriors in execution. Each faction has a series of inbuilt mechanics to their baseline minions and a series of selectable ones with specialized gimmicks and each general might use them differently. For example, let us say all Abyssian generals have the common mechanic of stockpiling a resource as allies dies around them. Generally their base minions are weaker (wraitling swarms) and heavily reliant on you being there to capitalize on them dying by droves to fuel unique stuff.

Some may charge it up faster for weaker effects, like Lilithe in order to pump a wave’s worth of wraithlings, others take longer for crueler moves, like Cassy summoning that monster of her autos.


#20

No. I don’t plan on forcing a team to choose a faction during the draft and only allow heroes from that faction. this would kill the overall fun and creativity. Same with these custom minions that change depending on the function.

But I will definitely include some heroes that can control their summons like in DOTA or HotS. Those are currently Lilithe and Frostiva btw. :wink: