Duelyst Forums

The seeds of truth that sparks the outcry for nerfs. Patch 1.95 (Tags: Malicious Wisp)

#1

Today, as I was grinding on ladder towards gold, I met a vanar player who ran the decklist of that borders mere legend of the supposed, outrageous power of Malicious Wisp. With this game, I could see why people were complaining since I felt so helpless in the ability to react (even if I was control creep cassyva). I merely watch as ended his second or third turn with 7 mana crystals to my 4 and understood why people were complaining about malicious wisp.

Here, have a watch:
https://play.duelyst.com/replay?replayId=-LAlBFFxvsDm28z3nPXW

Now that I have experienced and understand why people cry out for a Malicious Wisp nerf, I will propose one that I think could help balance malicious wisp without it distrupting its intended feature.

Original:

Proposed:

Reasoning: This change is suppose to be a half measure when compared to the original since instead of having a 2 mana shift (enemy general loses 1, your general gains 1) its a 1 mana shift (enemy general loses 1). Now on turn 3 or 4, you should not be able to summon Grandmaster Embla.

Bonus: “The one true nerf that everyone wants but does not deserve”

This being now an unintended, “we want a nerf” thread, I want to go back and ask you guys about any stories or games that made you question whether or not a specific card should be have been nerf at the time. (i.e lavaslasher, Kron, etc)

1 Like
#2

my story - i lost twice to wisp, since then i figured out the problem and played accordingly.
i couldn’t load your gameplay but either - you fell on a smurf that was way beyond your level or you still don’t know how to position and play well.
if you play cass you should have more then enough power and chances to run wisps over.
perfect your game and you’ll see less problems.

p.s - wisp is one thing but is you saw what a good ramp player could do to you on turn four you’ll start praying.
without winter’s wake early embla (when you have full hand and a removal packed) is still manageable

1 Like
#3

The more I play with and against it the less I agree with posts claiming this card is broken. It forces you to adjust your plays, but if you never have to adapt then any monkey can sit and play cards on curve (see also- Vaath decks).

4 mana for an effect like that and being forced to play the minion defensively isn’t a big deal to me. When I play it myself I actually play it offensively because the effect isn’t worth backlining it.

The ramp can be annoying, but it’s Vanar. There’s no way to prevent their ramp anyways.

5 Likes
#4

you felt helpless to react to malicious wisp as cassyva? were you not running daemonic lure or punish?

1 Like
#5

Accumolonimbus should be nerfed. The story is literally any game where it is used.

5 Likes
#6

The card isn’t broken the card is a bad design and the high roll of the card leaves other side more demoralized than almost any other card in the game.The card is also one card that procs dying wish or double dying wish away from being very stupid. So the real question is has card ever been nerfed because of the high roll possibility? The answer is yes flash reincarnation got nerfed because it when high roll and got two in your hand. You could bring out Juggernaut on second turn lead to awful play experience for some. When Vanar gets out two of these cards and transforms/dispels one leads to a awful play experience.

I do generally agree the card in most cases isn’t as bad people claim,I think a small change from 3 health to 2 health makes the card easier to kill and more healthy gameplay wise. Anyways the odds of Double flash Juggernaut where low and it still got nerfed. In most games Wisp isn’t going to seem that bad but when you get the nuts draw and set up.It doesn’t feel good so much so that it is type of losing that leads people to quit a game bad.The card leads to badly one sided games that is not good for the game.

3 Likes
#7

I believe it should get similar treatment as old Time Maelstrom, and the Meditate combo…

Malicious Wisp is not something that we can’t play around or plan for, but there is a big difference between not getting the draw you need to deal with it…and the feeling of not getting a chance to play.

All decks can get god hands and perfect draws, sure…but that doesn’t feel bad to lose to because we can appreciate the RNG of such occurrence.
The feeling of not being allowed to play…simply blows.

2 Likes
#8

opponents play 2 or 3 malicious wisps, ya i enjoy my 2 drops while you get your emps. seemsgoodman i love repeating turns, that’s why saurian is such a fun card

#9

Personaly im waiting for sandswirl reader/accumulonimbus nerf over anything else. Malicious is annoying but i dont think its utterly broken (4/3 for 4 mana that you want to hide is not great)

1 Like
#10

Malicious Wisp is frustrating.
How often though does having an extra mana or 2 make?
Would you have been able to answer an early Embla or something similar if your opponent ramp by other means (e.g. MDG)? Chances are you will still struggle.
While other ramp methods don’t deny mana they also cost less than 4. (1 or 2.)

#11

Malicious Wisp is not broken nor is Vanar strong right now but Malicious Wisp doesn’t need a nerf, it needs a complete rework as it’s bad design.

It needs to become better than it already is but do a completely different thing.

2 Likes
#12

I personally think it was a Smurf or god luck hand since there was no way to escape that in my position. I’m not trying to complain about malicious wisp but just wanted to show a seed of how an outcry for a Nerf came to be.

For those who can’t see it I will leave a script for the game.

Game: Vanar faie vs Abyssian Cassyva

Turn 1 1st: Vanar moves forward with usual 2 Mana stun+draw, stunning Abyssian general.

Turn 1 2nd: Abyss retaliates with wraith swarm to Mana tile and abyss crawler nearby general

Turn 2 1st: Vanar takes middle tile, kills 1/1 on Mana tile and deathgrips crawler.

Turn 2 2nd: Abyss moves forward and leaves 2/2 nocturne behind.

Turn 3 1st: Vanar takes upper mana tile, kill another 1/1 diagonally between both generals. At 6 Mana, summon Mal wisp and deathgrips last 1/1. Then transforms Mal wisp via aspect of ego into harupex, expending all Mana for turn.

Turn 3 2nd: abyss general ping + punish harupex, expending 3 of 4 Mana available and takes middle.

Turn 4 1st: Vanar summons grandmaster and game is officially lost as the next couple turns are just futile attempt to catch up.

I literally couldn’t do anything to counteract those turn of events.

Trying to repost the replay:

https://play.duelyst.com/replay?replayId=-LAlBFFxvsDm28z3nPXW

#13

I’m assuming its strong due to all the transform effects vanar has at its disposal. As seen in the replay, for 5 mana, you could get a summon a random 4 mana minion w/ the bonus battlecry of “Take a mana crystal from your opponent”.

Also I do want acclumbious to get nerfed, either by the card getting changed or the introduction of counter tech cards that weakens the power (I.e. Nightwatcher, the counter to dervish vetruvian, may it be in unlimited.

#14

That is the other problematic card that I see should get nerfed. That or introduce other cards that counterbalance that power (I.e. Nightwatcher, why did it move to unlimited :c)

#15

While you would probably still lose I won’t say you “literally” couldn’t do something else.

If you didn’t summon any minions you wouldn’t get hit by ManaDeathGrip :stuck_out_tongue: .

Would have Shadow Nova on the top 2 Blazing Spines. Top-right Gravity Wall was gonna die anyway to existing creep.

There was one main thing you should have done though. When you see opponent gonna have 8 mana play around Embla. That mean wall hug instead of walking out in the open. Resulting in -3 walls. Also keep your minions (Nocturne) close by to help clear any walls that spawn.

#16

Even if you’re put into a situation where there is such a massive mana gap you can still easily win.

Jason a Vet main was playing a match in team wars against Vanar as Vetruvian, he was playing the faction that loses the hardest to Wisp he still won with making the correct play.

#17

Doesn’t matter if minion is transformed or dispelled.

#18

If they transformed it or dispelled it then they made the incorrect play, the same with bouncing.

#19

I’m going to bite the bullet and say, yes I did not play optimally to increase my slim chance of winning that encounter.

However, I do believe it needs either a Nerf at least, to a major rework at best.

Regardless, what other cards do you guys/girls/helicopters think still need a change?

#20

The card doesn’t need a nerf because it is over powered but it needs to have a completely different identity because it’s degenerate.

1 Like