Duelyst Forums

The Future of Duelyst


#25

Maybe I can have his account so I can burn it and stop his activity, instead of letting him ‘collect’ other accounts.


#26

Whether he’s collecting them or not, he always posts the same thing. I’ve yet to see him add anything meaningful to a conversation or even entertain other people’s ideas. He posts to get a rise out of people, that’s basically the definition of a troll.


#28

He doesn’t post to get a rise of people, only those posts he doesnt change the formula, he has actually collected accounts Btw… But not In duelyst.

And he almost always adds something meaningful it’s just these types of threads he post them in. Or when someone mentions they are leaving for good.


#29

Sacred poopoo did I just write that last night? wow i sure hate Hi-Rez lmao.
Okay, I’ll be real honest with you, I haven’t really tried smite tactics and I’ve only watched a couple of videos of it to form my opinion. The balance and matchmaking just happened to be the recurring theme in the steam reviews.

Tell you what though, I’ll actually try it out and get back to you :smiley:

Disclaimer tho:
I don’t think I’ll ever be able tell you anything about the smite tactic’s meta even if i do play though. I’m a lowly rank 12 player who enjoys doing cheesy strats and grinding for orbs for the purpose of cheesy strats(and collecting). The main reason I don’t like it is because the animation and art isn’t enticing(which i find to be a huge deal-breaker for a Collectible Card Game).

it’s not “not worth trying”, it’s just that it’s in “early access” and it’s showing signs of a wonky start. If smite tactics isn’t the only game you’re considering as an alternative to duelyst, I’d highly suggest that you consider trying it when it’s more polished, and you’ve seen how the devs work.

tldr; I’m not the best guy to answer things about smite tactics meta. I mostly hate it cause i find it ugly. It’s not “not worth trying”.The game might, nay, -should- be better with age, so i suggest trying it after some time has passed.


#30

Difficult to add something meaningful to a discussion if you never participate in them. Pretty much the only topics Nwardezir posts in are whine threads where he is trolling people and the spam thread. His activity outside of those is close to zero.


#31

At least we agree on the fact they are whine thread.
Blame @locoblutaxt that summoned me here :slight_smile:

If you really are that passionate to read me and want to avoid the “trolling”, indeed, I advice you to stay away from Memetrashbin thread and whining ones.

You can find some useful replies in the others. I made you a short selection where you can read my words where I am replying about Razer Offer, talking about old boss battles, explaining the accelerating power of Desolator, replying about this week boss, helping a spanish player to gather a community, reassuring someone about a 5 Spirit bug, giving advice on talented Abyss players … I’ll stop here, it’s just a quick sample of last week, by digging deeper, you will find interesting ones over my previous 60ish weeks of activity in the archives* :slight_smile:

As you seem to be really fan of my words, I must thank you, I’ll try to continue to enlighten your days.

* I especially recommend UI Interface Compilation and OOM Library (maybe outdated but still fun) for which I got a lot of good feedback and even some nice PM.

Sorry for derailing this thread, but you made me a part of it with all these previous posts where I’m the topic. Feel free stop and go debate again about the “Future of Duelyst”.


#32

I have tried Hand of the Gods (about 5 games now) and it’s not great but the mechanics haven’t grown on me yet. It definitely has the gameplay of a mobile game and is faster than Duelyst.

The main selling point of this game (specifically over Duelyst) however will probably be their lacks of hard removal. None of the stater decks at least offer anything other than some damage spells, and a neutral dispel.


#33

Sorry for derailing this thread, but you made me a part of it with all these previous posts where I’m the topic. Feel free stop and go debate again about the “Future of Duelyst”.

Listen, I’m very sorry that the way you act has made people think less of you and you feel the need justify to your presence here. However, you have cultivated a certain image deliberately and continue to do so. That you don’t consider yourself a troll doesn’t really matter when most everyone else does. Whatever ‘good’ you think you do is almost certainly not of adequate value to compensate for your presence in other threads in my opinion.

If you’re fine with that please continue doing what you do, and you’ve made clear what your opinions are. But also don’t be surprised when people dislike you making the same tired ‘joke’ in nearly every thread you show up in.


#34

To address the actual topic of discussion:

I really like Duelyst, I do. It has amazing potential.
But that’s just it, it stays with potential most of the time.
With other games now treading on Duelyst’s toes in regard to game-style it needs to be able to achieve that potential to keep existing and actually compete against these other games.

Art:
Duelyst’s most striking and best feature (to me) is its art-style. I love pixel-graphics and I love the design of Duelyst creatures. However, I have also seen people get massively turned off by the graphics and style. It’s a very polarizing style for some. I personally love it and it was my initial ‘draw’ for the game. I liked the look and I wanted to play it.
However not everyone likes these types of graphics and so while I personally think this is one of their greatest strengths other parts of their game need to be as good.

Gameplay:
The motto is lightning-fast games, last I heard. And that is great, that shows you have a clear goal.
In practice however, it feels like despite being out of beta for a while Duelyst is still trying to find its footing game-play wise. There have been major upheavals in the way the game is played in the 1,5 years I’ve been here. This is good for keeping enthusiasm and diversity normally. However not when they change the fundamental ways the game is played.

A recent example is completely changing the card-draw factions have available to them, the December expansion gave everyone massive card-draw compared to what was available before. This completely changes the game and unbalances the meta. This makes it feel like Duelyst is still building a foundation for their game instead of being on solid ground

It also feels like (to me) at least, there’s more of a focus on out of hand damage, or at least more of it, compared to how it was a year ago. It’s much easier to get massive amounts of burst on someone now. (this might just be my perception) And that might make people think something is bullshit and quit.

I also believe that they need to define the design goals for their factions to provide interesting and varied game-play. Currently a lot of factions don’t have this and it feels like you’re playing against neutral decks more than faction decks. Either dedicate yourself to all neutral and make everything available to everyone or make distinct factions with their own strengths and weaknesses. What we have now is a bad version of in-between.

Story and events:
Duelyst has a very interesting lore and very unique. This, to me, is one of its strong points. However again it’s been left fallow. Nothing is done with the lore, in fact the most recent 5 codex entries felt absolutely rushed to ‘finish’ the story and never be bothered with it again. (again they felt this way to me).
It feels like they don’t know where they want to go with it. They’ve got unique ideas but then don’t work on them or tell you about them or give you any meaningful way to interact with them. It feels very directionless.

The Seven Sisters were cool, very cool and made you feel as if stuff was going to happen and allowed you to speculate. It has been a year and nothing else happened. Nothing interesting or interactive was done etc… It also feels like nothing is in the works.

There have been no other real events except the frostfire festival, which was just ‘do quests to get a skin’. That’s about it. They don’t organize tournament, they don’t give incentive to be involved in the lore.

There were talks about adding Generals on mounts in certain dev streams. Sadly this has been over a year and was never mentioned again. Stuff like that is absolutely silly.

There was talks of a campaign of some sort, with single player content. There has been no word on this whatsoever. The only thing we have is the bosses, which are pretty cool but don’t quite make me go ‘wow I want to play this game’.

Other games haven’t been around long enough to develop a world or events to participate in, but duelyst is very much slacking.

Mobile:
in the same vein as the generals, it’s been how long since they’ve said we’ll get mobile versions soon.
I know coding is a lot harder than writing stories or planning events, so maybe they’ve been putting all their efforts into this? Hopefully. But it’s been a very long time already.
Other games will have this before Duelyst and that will be a problem for the game.

Marketing:
There is still absolutely no marketing for Duelyst or any sort of public exposure. Hopefully that will change with the Bandai-Namco partnership, it just hasn’t been proven yet that it will.

New Player Friendliness:
This is also something where Duelyst fails a little. Ignore the mess of expansions and achieveing cards and whatnot.
Think of the first thing you do when you’re a new player.
You play with the faction pre-made decks. And without exception, these are terrible and outdated.
Grow in Magmar is not viable and never really was, Deathwatch in Abyssian is in a similar position.
It doesn’t give new palyers any of the tools to get started.

In general:
Duelyst still feels like a game that doesn’t know what it’s doing. It feels very rough and early and while its game-play is solid, the way they expand on that doesn’t feel solid. In fact it feels like they’re making the game less solid the longer it goes on.
Duelyst talks the talk about stuff but does not walk the walk in actually getting those things done.

I like Duelyst and I really hope they achieve their potential and can compete with other games but they need to really start trying.


#35

I’d like to defend @nwardezir, even though he needs no defence. That little recurring joke you discuss in depth here is not much more than a little recurring joke. He did not try to justify his presence here, what he wanted to say is you need to have a wider picture to make a meaningful conclusion of him being a troll.

No offence, @misanthropovore.

Cheers.


#36

None taken. Like I said in the post, it’s an opinion.

I don’t know him, I don’t know how he is in real life. I can only judge him based on how I see him acting. He can be Ghandi for all I know, or a really great dad or someone’s favorite grand-daughter. He might have an enormous breadth of character and be as deep as an ocean, but it’s not my job to get to know him.

All I see is what he’s shown me in the threads here and I must admit to rolling my eyes whenever I see one of his posts. But again, that’s a personal opinion and only reflects on my opinions on how things should be discussed and done, not on him necessarily. I don’t think he should stop doing what he’s doing or that he’s a bad person, it just means I don’t particularly care for the way he behaves and that I think he’s very one-note.


#37

“Recent”? ROTB is almost a year old now and it was the second expansion this game saw, it was released a little more than half a year after the games release. In such a young state i think it should be allowed to make some adjustments to the game play, even major ones. You have to keep in mind, the core set was mostly designed for 2 draw. The Devs probably realized that the factions need more draw cards in a one draw game. The only thing to blame them for here is that they didn’t realize this sooner.

A year ago the meta was warped around Aggro Reva who regularly killed on turn 4 with purely out of hand burst. Compared to that the game has become really tame. There isn’t that much burst around, most of the big burst combos need setup and the ones that don’t cost a lot of mana. Yes at 7 mana you might take 9 damage to face. But for a “lightning fast” game, i think that’s ok. Generally, since UP the board is more relevant than ever.

No offense but do you actually still play the game? Your posts on this whole faction design topic really don’t make it look that way. I can’t think of a single deck out there that is mostly relying on neutrals, they are all faction card heavy and all the factions have very distinct playstyles. Vanar and Vetruvian, Songhai and Lyonar, Abyssian and Magmar no matter what deck you pick no matter the faction, they all play very differently.

You keep claiming there is no faction identity and they all feel like neutrals but would you mind sharing some examples of Decks of different factions that are/feel alike? Sure you can make a midrange Deck with Vaath and with Kaleos, but they play entirely different. You can play Aggro using Cass or using Zirix, but again they play completely different.

There is certainly a lot of stuff about this game that makes you want to smash your head into a wall but the points you raise here don’t really have a foundation imo. It’s like your talking about the game how it was a year ago, back then i would have agreed. But at least gameplaywise the game evolved in a positive way since then. At least if we forget about Ancient Bonds for a moment -.-


#38

ROTB was released in December of last year, if I recall correctly. I had been playing for 9 months then, I think. But you are correct that it’s been nearly a year and that young game should definitely feel around and adjust itself.

But that was sort of the point of my comment, it feels like it is still adjusting itself.
Another example: There are multiple archetypes in each faction that are not adequately supported. These are not archetypes that have been added recently. Rebirth and Grow are in a terrible state, Vespyrs are never used, Infiltrate is not utilized, Deathwatch is terrible. These archetypes have been around since the start, most of them are even in the starting decks. Yet none of them are actually worth playing, despite the devs trying to make them work very hard.

My main point was that Duelyst hasn’t solidified its direction yet, despite being out for a year. That is absolutely fine, Warframe is still finding its way too for example. But it doesn’t feel like a well-polished game yet.


You are correct in saying that at this point in time a year ago Reva was absolutely horrifying. When i meant a year ago I was mostly thinking about June-July-(maybe August). Apologies.
I see a lot of ‘remove or die’ threats though, like the recent phantasm problem for example or just eight gates and three phoenix fires to the face for example. Maybe I’m seeing the world through rose-colored glasses but this part specifically was an ‘in my opinion’.


I do still play the game but my interest is waning. I’m mostly still interested in the game from a mechanical perspective.
That you can’t think of decks that are mostly relying on neutrals doesn’t make most decks heavily reliant on neutrals. Especially Vetruvian and Vanar. While neutrals are fine, they often define Duelyst metas (Kron, Thunderhorn, Meltdown, Blue Conjurer, etc…).
Everyone is also still incredibly reliant on the same staple neutrals (bloodtear is a prime example of this, together with mystic.)
To make Starhorn work in the current meta you NEED a neutral card (Decimus), the in-faction support for him is still terrible. This is also a clear sign of badly implemented faction-identity. Neutrals should be there to supplement, not as a necessity.

Also my claim wasn’t that there is no faction identity, my claim is there is little faction identity and it should be more strongly enforced and curated. The vetrucian faction is a card-board house propped up by a few very powerful cards, they seemingly have no idea what to do with them. Vanar is being given every tool they can think of to shore up their weaknesses instead of giving them distinct pros and cons. That is what I mean with distinct identities.

I would agree that the game is evolving in a positive way, I’m just saying it’s also been 1,5 years since I’ve started playing and there has been a lot of change but still no real and clear direction in their intent towards the future.


#39

EDIT: Nvm, @misanthropovore just posted clarifying everything. Carry on and have a good day.


#40

You know, not every ability and minion type has to have it’s own archetype. There aren’t any provoke or ranged decks either, these abilities are for utility, just like Rebirth and Infiltrate.

Again, i would like to see an example for that claim.

Sure Thunderhorn found a home in most Wall Vanar Decks, but he is about the only neutral you commonly see in them and he isn’t mandatory at all. Just use another 4 drop and Aspect of the Ravager and your good to go. I guess you could make an argument for Arcanyst Vanar, but Arcanyst is a neutral tribe to begin with, it’s not exclusively a Vanar thing and was never designed to be it. However, it’s not the most common Vanar Deck right now Wall/reflect Vanar is and they hardly use neutrals at all.

Same thing with Vet. Yes they use Golems which is again a neutral Tribe but if you look at their Obelysk based decks then you won’t see many neutrals in them, if any at all.

I have to give you Decimus, that really could have been a Magmar card, just like Sarlac could have been an Abyssian card but oh well. Utility cards like Bloodtear and Mystic a perfectly fine being neutrals and ofc good utility cards get used alot in different decks but they aren’t mandatory to make them work, they are just, well, utility.

That’s just plain wrong. Again, this is something that was true more than a year ago when Aymara alone was carrying the faction. But now Vetruvian has 2 distinct archetypes and only one of them is reliant on a specific card, flying Vet, which obviously needs it’s central combo piece Azure summoning. Don’t see how that is a bad thing?

They’ve been given exactly what they needed to have something like a faction identity, nothing more, nothing less. Honestly how much more distinct to a specific playstyle does a faction have to be for you to count? Vanar is like the incarnation of MTG Blue at this point. Just with Chromatic Cold and Seraphim instead of Counterspell and Morphling.


#41

Vanar has consistently relied on neutrals:
Now Thunderhorn, then Meltdown, then Blue conjurer, etc…
And not just in wall decks.

I’m taking these out of Grinch’s compilation tier-list imgur. If you find another repository of tierlists that features other ‘high-tier’ players I’ll be glad to peruse them.

Vetruvian flying heavily depends on azure summoning AND Skywing and a whole bunch of other neutrals (Grincherz’s list, Seedy’s list)

Arcanyst Vanar relies heavily on neutrals (Grincherz’ list, Kolos’ list, minmaxer’s list)

I’ve restricted myself to the tier 0 and 1 lists, so you can’t say they’re not competitive or something.

Also no Decimus shouldn’t have been a Magmar card, because that’s not what the Magmar faction is about. It’s what they’re currently turning it into, but it’s not what it’s about or was planned to be about or…

I’m sorry but I’ll respond to the rest of your post later, since we seem to be discussing two completely different parts of the conversation. We don’t seem to see eye to eye what faction identity means in a game. I’ll come back when I can try and explain it better to you.

(also Magic is an excellent example of a card-game where EVERYTHING is neutral, you can run any card in any deck, no restrictions. If that’s what you want for Duelyst that’s fine but it’s what they’re currently not doing.)

For examples of great faction identity, mostly in boardgames though look at: Chaos in The Old World, Cthulhuwars, Twilight Imperium.

I will ask you a different question though, do you agree or disagree with the rest of my initial post?


#42

That’s my point, they don’t rely on Thunderhorn. Their gameplan doesn’t require it. It’s just a decent midrange minion they use, just like Magmar is using Sunsteel and Lyonar is using Dioltas. Use Aspect of the Ravager over Aspect of Shimzar and replace Thunderhorn with any other minion and you still have perfectly viable Wall decks.

Arcanyst is Vanar is revolves around a neutral tribe so what? Arcanyst Songhai and Arcanyst Abyssian do the same are those two factions neutral reliant as well? Same with Golem/Flying Vet. They are using a neutral tribe so ofc they have some neutrals in them, but the faction has another top tier archetype in Obelysks and as you can see Amoores List has a whooping 1 neutral in it.

The faction is about what ever the Devs want it to be. If they want Starhorn to be about drawing then that’s what it is. If you don’t like that fine but that’s entirely on you.

Ok i am out after seeing that. Magics 5 colors are a prime example of having 5 factions with very different and unique playstyles and feels. If that’s not enough identity for you then i don’t know what is and it’s pointless to keep arguing.

I agree that the game is still changing after 1,5 years. I disagree that this is a bad thing. There are many aspects of the game that new expansions can emphasize and thereby somewhat reeinvent the game. Shimzar brought Battlepets, ROTB focused on BBS synergy, AB promoted the 2 main tribes of the game and UP gave the game a much stronger board focus. Future expansions are sure to emphasize other aspects of the game and that’s a good thing as far as i am concerned. I really don’t know what your complaining about here.


#43

Dunno what the complaint about neutrals is about.
Just because a faction can use neutrals doesn’t mean it has no faction identity.
Some people just want to play interesting neutral cards. Certain neutrals cards just fit in a certain faction better. Some time later said card might be better in a different faction as well.

This is a collectable card game. There will be new cards. The meta will change. The only unpredictable thing is how much. A game that stays the same can easily become boring over time.

Heard the old archetype not supported thing quite often. Sometimes things don’t work as well as you want. People only play good cards.
For example with Rebirth. Shimzar expansion had a lot of “egg support cards”.
Lava lance, Rex, Wild Inceptor, Morin-Khur, Dreadnaught and Flaming Stampede.
There was support. It just wasn’t effective enough.
Lets just hope the designers get inspiration to design some “effective support” cards for old archetypes. And ideas for new archetypes because it will be boring to just have only more of old. And we don’t want random bad cards either that dilute the goods you get when you open an orb.
No pressure to the designers. Just that the cards designed can affect the future of Duelyst :wink:.


#44

I am a little worried, the tournaments that happen once a week get like 7-10 players in them signed up…

is the population currently that bad?


#45

Not really. The problem with tournaments is that there isn’t a World tournament (or another official Counterplay made tournament) to make the other tournaments more interesting/useful or to bind the tournament scene together at the moment. When there was a World Duelyst tournament, you also had other tournaments, that were not done by Counterplay, that gave qualification points towards the world tournament. Meaning that those tournaments were a good way to get to the world tournament as well as getting use to the tournament formats, different metas/decks etc.

Then you have different barriers that will stop some people from joining. Things like the amount of decks needed (some require 4 decks from different factions), time zone issues since every tournament I’ve seen isn’t ideal for people like myself who are outside of North America, some require you to signup for discord, the way you submit your decks etc.

So I wouldn’t say its the population, its the lack of a reward or motivation to drive people to those tournaments.