Tempo Lyonar still broken


#1

After this patch didn’t change anything about one of the most boring archetypes in the game, I think I’m going to quit for a while. I’ve just had a few games where my enemy literally didn’t do anything besides spamming Holy Immolations, Circle of Lifes and Trinity Oaths and just dumped his hand every time. There’s just no winning against this nonsense. And, more importantly, it’s no fun. With CPG’s approach to balancing, it might take another year until this is fixed. I think I need a breather from this game.

Why was there no change whatsoever?


#2

just wait a few days for the tryhard S climbers to pass you. they didnt change it because although it is really easy (boring) to make and pilot, it is not the be all end all of the meta. instead of quitting, try to figure out what counters lyonar. i find enfeeble destroys their big drops and if its just the spells getting to you, maybe tech in prophet of the white palm. it will prevent holy immolations and circle of life from doing anything if you can get the timing right.


#3

They didn’t even play any minions? That’s incredible.

If you need a break, take a break, I find it’s best to wait a week before laddering if you’re not going for S-rank supremacy. What are you playing? Maybe post your decklist?


#4

Made it so S-rank every season so far with a relatively traditional cassy list, so I’m not particularely concerned about that - but I just hade losing against decks that could be piloted by a monkey.


#5

you see, the problem with this is probably how you approach the game, don’t copy other’s deck, try building a deck yourself that aims to counter tempo lyonar and trust me there is, i have a few original deck which i obviously won’t share but all in all, even against lyonar with perfect opening hand you can make certain deck works against that.

trust me, try it out, surprise the meta with your original deck.

i just read that you made it to S every season, good for you but since you still have problem with tempo lyonar, you should try to counter it like for real since you have the skill required in deck building according to your rank.


#6

You make it sound like said monkey couldn’t pilot a traditional Cassyva list with its eyes closed :bread:


#7

A lot of this is probably due to a bad matchup for you personally, but nobody, not even the most dedicated Lyonar player, can deny that that deck has been at the top for way too long.

From even before Shim’zar to now, the deck had gone through two expansions while keeping the same game plan and still remain the number 1-2 deck. However, the deck itself, while simplistic, does not really have anything that severely restricts that decks that you can play. There are far more oppressive decks to have at the top of the meta.

@ZyX I swear I’ve seen that bread before on the old forums but I forgot its meaning :bread:


#8

Cassyva might not be backstabhai levels of difficult, but claiming it’s as simple as tempo lyonar is just mean-spirited.


#9

That my friend is called karma

Think on what you have done.


#10

Lifegain is classically overrated. It is often more a safety blanket than something that wins you the game. Many games do come down to who can assemble a better board and deploy the better strategy. The ease of play make lyonar a common foe, but they can be beaten. I like facing them far more than facing cassy actually.


#11

Why the hell are we ending sentences with bread emotes instead of periods :bread:


#12

I wouldn’t call Tempo Lyonar “broken” by traditional means. The deck is extremely hard to pilot well, and carefully designed to counter most common early plays. The biggest issue I have with the deck is Tiger, which is it’s own can of worms. Holy Immolation could be made to only work on damaged untis, which would make Bloodtear and Slo less clutch, and probably make TL a deck that has to be completely reconstructed from the ground up- but with that in mind, HI is a difficult spell to position and play to begin with, so it may very well be overkill.

If your opponent was playing Trinity Oath, they probably weren’t playing Tempo Lyo in favor of a Midrange Argeon list. If they played more than one Circle, they almost certainly weren’t.

CPG is very good at fixing things, but they have performed overkill adjustments before like Third Wish and Siphon- so it’s likely that they are trying to be wise and wait for their next comprehensive balance patch, so that it hits all of the right beats.

If you’re struggling with Argeon, I’ve found that Paragon or Grovekeeper tech is supremely good at turning the matchup around. However, if your list is untuned, or not comprehensive enough about it’s gameplan, a deck like Tempo or Midrange Lyonar is likely to walk all over you with raw consistency. Every faction also contains several key cards that let them do some pretty heinous things to Lyonar, so if you supply your decklists, we would be happy to suggest modifications that make your Lyonar matchup (provided you also use good positioning and proper development.)


#14

Wait, have you tried Tempo Lyonar? No joke, it’s a deck that requires you to play on a tightrope- as in, it’s unforgiving in a pretty mean way when you punt. You can get a great deal of matchup based information from just trying the deck.

Creep struggles more with TL than other decks because it’s just difficult to stabilize if you’re just making 1f1 trades. That said, Rust Crawlers and Spectral Blades are always fine tech choices. Are you committed to Obliterates, if so what’s your Revenant and Obliterate split? TL is a deck that really puts the screws to anyone playing greedy curves.


#15

When every person is complaining about a completely different deck and some completely different cards from completely different factions you start seeing it slowly… Everything is played, we are at a great era of balance people just simply don’t understand their decks can’t and shouldn’t be designed to beat every deck in the universe; counters exist.


#16

Same could be said about Rock-Paper-Scissors which is still a shit game that only a infant could find entertaining.


#17

So what you desire is the ability to create a deck that can beat all other decks? Do you understand the consequences of such a creation?


#18

No. I am just saying that balance is a useless indicator when it comes to judging how much fun a game is.


#19

I actually don’t mind tempo lyonar. And I complain about everything.


#20

Tempo Lyonar is not broken, period. It’s not even clear that it’s the best deck. It’s a viable, tier 1 deck and that’s fine, but it’s FAR from broken.

I’m an S player every single month and am probably more qualified to talk about balance and power levels than some others.


#21

Not only the concerns of S-Rank players are valid.

Everyone’s play experience is important, and if a card is toxic at Silver but not in Gold the Silver players are perfectly entitled to complain about it.

Putting S-Rank players on a pedestal in the way you’re proposing is not healthy for the game and, frankly, a tad unpleasant.