Duelyst Forums

[State of Magmar 01/18/2017] The Countered Gaze

Long time no Magmar thread about the current state, so while I’m for shure not the most appropriate person for that, I’ll try and give my best.

Straight after the release of Bloodborn Starhorn Flood- and Spike-Decks were just a blast. Not only that every second player played it, but this decks ended every game at 5 to 6 Mana - the “longer” ones at 7 with Decimus and Spikes combo into lethal or concede.
Not a long time and players realized that Vaath can do the same but better because he now had Starhorn BBS via cards and his own “pumping iron” one in addition.
It came as it had to: Daily rants about how OP Magmar is, especially Entropic Gaze. I don’t want to evaluate this at this point - just determine it.

Fortunately Meta had some time because of the short break of the Devs between the years. And, from my point of view, Meta shifted. People had time to think of counter strategies to Magmar and unsurprisingly they did. Talking about Meta I have to say that I’m most probably not the person which, as an always Diamond never S-Ranker, should do. There are lots of persons that can do this better.

What I do see at the moment: The Magmar decks I played 4 weeks ago doesn’t work anymore. Assuming I’m not gonna play worse then before (again: it’s my personal view) Magmar is pretty much countered at this time. May be (talking serious not ironic) I’m just unable to create proper decks for it at the moment. Other Generals, especially Faie but also Abyssian and Songhai), seem to be stronger then Magmar at the moment. I don’t see much Lyonar and Vet seems to me on par with Magmar (I have to say: still hanging on Gold atm). I played a bit with my decks, making them more midrangey or giving them more control for example but nothing seems to work really good.

A short word about Starhorn: When Bloodborn was out people where talking about the “synergy” the new cards have with him. From my point of view (which can always be wrong): The new cards didn’t give us synergy. They gave us “more of 'em”. And I think, after some weeks it’s proofed that Starhorn has back it’s old place in the General ranking just because Vaath can do the same things - especially with (or should I say “just because of”) the new cards.

Me, personally, think that the Meta is not optimal at the moment but OK. And while cards like Gaze may be a bit much for the Mana, I think there are other cards the Devs should care of with higher priority (thinking of Variax, Falcius, Concealing Shroud,…). I’m a bit desoriented at the moment and don’t find my spot as before the expansion but this could be me and doesn’t necessarily have to be a bad sign.

What do I expect? A hard nerf to Gaze making it unplayable (as almost every card the Devs nerf) and a slight nerf to Spikes - leading into a hard time for Magmar for the next six weeks (at least).

So, yeah, that’s what I wanted to say. And ask the Breeding Horde out there:
What do you think?
Is Magmar at a good spot atm? Are the complaints (especially about Gaze and Spikes) well founded or does the Meta learned us, that it was some kind of overreaction of the community? What are you’re best and worst matchups? Which archetypes are you playing atm? Do you think one or more cards have to be buffed/nerfed/reworked? Are you still playing Magmar or have you switched to another faction? And why?

I’m curious about your opinions!

1 Like

Please don’t nerf Vetruvian again. Falcius can stay.

Also, semi-aggro Spellhai, because its a rather effective counter to Magmar, as you can consistently vomit your hand onto the board every turn, knowing that Magmar is just going to fill it back up next turn. And it is simply a fun achetype.

I think Entropic Gaze could use a mana increase to 3. This way, it becomes just a slightly less efficient Phoenix Fire, but it has draw synergy. Alternatively, it could have Edgymar synergy by making it deal 4 damage to Vaath/Starhorn. Everything else is fine, though Vetruvian could use some buffs.

I don’t want to talk about Falcius here or Songhai. It’s a “State of Magmar”-thread.

Edit: Just to clarify: @isgopet’s reply is now edited - so my own (this) reply reads a bit misplaced now. But I let this here as is. It doesn’t really matter that much.
I really like replys from Magmar players in this thread while I don’t want to shut down others. But please focus more on Magmar’s state discussion and less on single card discussions.

I’m currently running this list on the ladder.

It’s a bit like the old Keeper lists. It’s not overwhelmingly strong. It often loses to itself (very little removal, no sustain at all and almost nothing that yields board presence) and it’s rather weak against Vanar (too much stall with Shroud and all their stuns) and Lyonar (too much Provoke and too many beefy minions), which seem to make up most of the field right now. But I enjoy playing it because when it works, it’s beautiful. And the games are quick. Sometimes you can win out of nowhere and it’s fun to figure out how to deal the lethal, game-winning blow – even if you end up short by a point or two.

Most of all it doesn’t result in a lot of those “Okay, I’m far from being dead, but I know I can’t win, so I just have to sit here and watch my opponent while he kills me slowly” type of situations which are so common when I play Lyonar.

For changes… I guess I’d like to see a Magmar-equivalent of Variax. Something that makes me want to play a Magmar control deck.

There is already Magmar version of Varaix it is called Silthar Elder.It is existence of Cass and Abyss that makes very hard to play.But I get your point Control Magmar while it still some what works the tools are some what expensive compared to say Vanar. Magmar was test dummy for control balance it sucks because something like metamorphosis was nerf in era of the game that had different rules and consistency was a issue.Now Meta should be cheaper but it isnt.

My thoughts

-Starhorn is a success,It went from worse general along with Sajj to Tier 1 general.People can hate the playstyle but Starhorn works and going into future Starhorn now has focus that works

-CPG needs to hold to its guns with Gaze and Spikes,Something needs to happen but in vacuum they are fine.

-What the something need to happen?Burn Magmar,Rush Magmar and Drogon Magmar need to be different builds.They need to be a change in cost in which Magmar can’t access every damage tool in every build.

-Egg and Grow are still bad.

-Self damage surprisingly is still solid,Cass doesn’t screw as hard as thought it would

Overall Magmar is in very good place,with just a little attention to control( egg and grow)

Not what I wanted to hear - because it means that it’s really me who is too dumb to play my favorite faction! :joy:

No you are right the meta has adjusted to Burnmar and aggro.Every successful deck has be able to beat Varaix and Burnmag and now Mechstarhorn. If it feels hard it because people are building decks to try to deal with Magmar does best. Of course it doesn’t matter to some extent because of the sheer amount damage Magmar can do

1 attack is never gonna be overshadowed by any other bbs aside from a attacking or ranged minion summon. We need to stop trying to compare all generals to aggressive attack rush more styles.

What starhorn does better is over draw I think cards like sphinx were a step in the right direction… It costs way to much tho but makes it so your opponent has to spend resource and loses cards he may need.

On the state of magmar is the state of all other factions. This game from the timelinr give to us has multiple expansions coming out. So they have to make new cards and make sure they are balanced. That means eventually each faction will have new features added, new keywords. Magmars just the first to have this new features to their faction. As I said in another thread they have to be very careful making egg and grow minion onward. One gives a minion rush which at times is very broken, grow given the wrong card can make Stickey minions and flooding unstoppable.

-What the something need to happen?Burn Magmar,Rush Magmar and Drogon Magmar need to be different builds.They need to be a change in cost in which Magmar can’t access every damage tool in every build.

This. So much this! Of the last 20-or-so games I’ve played in Diamond, about half were against some form of “Vaath stronk, much cards, such face, many rush”. I don’t have any problems with Vaath being in the best spot in meta right now (great that Magmar gets some love), it’s just that that specific deckstyle is super boring to play against.

If you play small minions, there’s Plasma Storm. Removal on your side doesn’t really work, because rush minions get their effects out of hand. You can dispel Vaath, but it’s usually a tempo loss. Thumping Wave solves all of the little problems like Aymara or Klaxon that remain from Plasma Storming and Makantor burst. This would all be ok (as it was before RotB), but with Entropic Gaze and Tectonic Spikes providing their extra damage, they can win purely with Flash, Elu, Thumping, Makantor and Vaath bbs + burns (note that each card works fine on its own besides Flash). I miss seeing Ademantite Claws and Bounded Lifeforce on the ladder, even that 1 Drogon I met today was refreshing :smiley:

I know you can always go hyper aggro against them which would probably work, but that’s not very interesting to play with either…

Agree! Imho theres only One thing that could change the situation, bar the obvious adjust to gaze, and thats a rework of elucidator. Remove Rush and give him another ability.

This topic was automatically closed 14 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.