In my opinion, it doesnt make him useful at all when other’s buff themselves or allies and don’t do ANYTHING for you, granite it’s a card but it should be a 1upp for me not both of us IF it’s an ability. Besides that this game is amazing, but starhorn will never be used in my deck.
CP is completely aware that Starhorn is weak atm, the idea is: do you buff the BBS itself or do you buff the card that synergize around it?
Looks like CP chose the second option for Shim’zar, Let’s wait for the expansion and see what the dev can do to make him good. I would prefer the first option since the second will always condemn Starhorn to niche deck at best.
However makes his BBS just draw a card is definitely too powerful.
I can’t believe it but I absolutely agree with everything you said.
Starhorn rework would be the way to go since making him better with cards would always end in generic Starhorn decks with cards that are most probably not useful for Vaath. Both is not good!
Basically what Thorkk said an expansion is coming and hopefully we get cards to fix Starhorn issues.We haven’t seen all of Magmar cards yet they could be a card that fixes Starhorn
For example CP made Falcius for Vet but specifically for Sajj it seems.That one card makes Sajj playable ,basically for 4 mana Sajj can remove any minion ( except Dark Nemesis, Kyhmera, Pandora, Whistling blade, Dragonbone Golem,Zir, Storm Kage,Unstable Leviathan and Bone Reaper )and take no damage in the process.
For Ziran they made Sunforge Lancer which when she heals something she gains one attack like Vaath .That should make Healnar viable as well.So we are waiting to see the card or cards like for Starhorn.
My guess is Visionar which gains plus +1/+1 every time “Anyone” draws a card will be the card that push Starhorn up.For the card to work and help Starhorn it only needs one thing to happen.The card needs to be decent while silenced something like a 3 cost 3/4 would be perfect.
Cool, hopefully he does get an update, his skin is almost boss for no reason
Totally wrong: He said he would prefer the first option. And I do so, too.
I think going to buff Starhorn with cards would be absolutely the wrong way to go. For reasons… I wrote.
Erh uhm he said they were going with option 2.So I am not wrong about anything.
I just want a playable Starhorn if can be fixed with cards then that is the smartest option.Once you change the bbs you have make ALL available playable cards are balanced with the bbs.If it can’t be fixed with cards then bbs has to be changed
He said “looks like”. He doen’t know it. But I think so, too - if that’s interesting to anyone.
No. It would be the wrong option. It would end up in generic Starhorn decks like Mech decks are at the moment. And it would hurt Magmar because most probably you could not use this cards with Vaath.
You don’t have to fix any cards but Vindi when reworking Starhorn. Basically there’s no relevant card at this time that has Starhorn synergy.
Dunno maybe they can go for a mana vortex-sque effect where starhorn bbs is:
Draw one card, your opponent draws an additional card at the end of their turn.
to balance his BBS, there needs to be more cards like high hand or dark seed, but instead of being unplayable they need to be really good. if those cards existed, his BBS wouldn’t need to change. for example, a 9 mana minion that got 1 mana cheaper for every card in the opponents hand or a rite of the undervault with the added effect of making your opponent draw the same number of cards, possibly forcing them to burn cards
Never seen a High Hand on board. It’s unplayable.
Dark Seed is absolutely niche - which acknowledges my theory.
I play Duelyst since January and I can’t remember that it hurt me when an opponent burnt a card from my deck. I don’t care to burn my own cards myself if I can play a good card for that price.
All that said… all I said still stands.
It’s the wrong way fixing something broken with something niche.
Starhorn has to be reworked and this Vetruvian General that they reworked once because his OP-ness (don’t know his name) has to be reworked again - maybe.
exactly, if dark seed did 2 damage per card instead of one, or high hand couldn’t be dispelled, or if there were more reliable ways to burn lots of cards( i wanna see a minion that burns a card in opponents deck every time they draw), then and only then would starhorn’s BBS be viable. there could be entire decks aiming to burn all your opponents cards, leaving them with no options and fatigue damage every turn
How does it feel to not be wrong for once? kappa
Devs have not talk about Starhorn,Kara,Ziran,Sajj bbs changing it pretty safe to assume nothing getting changed.
Changing the bbs changes how EVERY interaction with EVERY playable Magmar card and neutral card might work.You think Sabarspine tiger and Kara was intentional? Changing isn’t a move to be done lightly.I honestly don’t think just adding cards enough but just adding cards is the best first option.Before you make a move that might lead reworking bunch of cards you make the smallest move with the biggest impact.
Sometimes it’s better to just take a compliment and not answer to it.
But I don’t know what “kappa” means. Maybe this takes you to the light side of might and I don’t see it.
I don’t think it’s as broken as many think.
It’s just… as uninteractive as losing to Spellhai.
“The main symbol/emote of Twitch.tv. It represents sarcasm, irony, puns, jokes, and trolls alike.”
In that context it was a joke. I also took your first post as a sarcasm because we only disagreed once as far as I can remember, so joke answering a joke , whatever.
I’d love for Starhorn to be a bit more viable since I like playing Magmar and being contrarian (Vaath is everywhere) but with his current BBS you’re just shooting yourself in the foot. It’s already hard enough against Kara or Songhai to keep their hands low, with Starhorn you’re just giving them more options to screw over your creatures with.
That being said, I’ll give whatever they’ve got planned in regard to Starhorn support this expansion a try and see how it goes.
@thorrk captured the problem perfectly, and I also wish CPG wouldn’t commit so heavily to trying to save a sinking ship. In the likely event that Shim’zar fails to produce adequate support for Starhorn (outside of Mechazor), then I’ll put together a separate ‘Hub’ thread to hone in on redesign suggestions for his BBS altogether.
Just as a preliminary way to bounce ideas, here are a few BBS redesigns that I’ve toyed with (I’m almost certain these have been suggested before in some way, shape, or form; so I make no claim to originality):
(1) Shift focus from drawing to replacing
- You may replace 2 additional cards this turn.
- Pro’s: maintains “Seeker” theme, adds new replace synergy component (possibly even saving Astral Crusader from Exile-tier)
- Con’s: not terribly flashy, would require Magmar-specific replace synergies (otherwise it may feel too neutral), relatively weak and non-interactive.
(2) Some variation of life-tap (probably the most suggested)
- Deal ‘X’ (2, 3?) damage to your General, draw a card.
- Draw a card and Stun your General.
- Pro’s: would be actually playable, perhaps very strong, maintains both “Seeker” theme and Draw synergy themes, opens up possibility for more Zoo (not a fan) and Control (yes please) archetypes.
- Con’s: very difficult to balance around a faction with excellent midrange options, very uninspired (not necessarily bad), further enables Zoo.
(3) Stalling Effects
Give your General +2 Armor.
Mechanically, this would be identical to HS’s warrior hero power.
Pro’s: warrior is my most played class and their hero power is my favorite (), tangentially maintains “Seeker” theme (e.g. buying time), also fits thematically with the fact that Magmar are giant lizard warriors with assumedly tough scales/plating, opens up huge possibility for control/fatigue (almost non-existent).
Con’s: very uninspired (not necessarily bad), would require new cards to synergize (so as to not feel faction-disconnected [omg how awesome would shield slam be in Magmar!]).
I now fully realize just how badly I want a Warrior/Control-Stall playstyle in Duelyst
Give an enemy minion -2 Attack.
Pro’s: tangentially maintains “Seeker” theme, synergizes with Natural Selection.
Con’s: would require many new cards to synergize, may be too weak.
Stun ANY minion with the lowest with the lowest Attack or tied for the lowest Attack.
(4) Looting Effect
- Draw a card, then discard a card.
- Pro’s: maintains both “Seeker” and Draw synergy themes, enables discard mechanics/synergies.
- Con’s: relatively uninspired, seems underpowered (especially in comparison).
(5) Keep BBS as it is, but modify the costs of drawn cards
Both players draw a card. Your card costs 1 less.
Pro’s: effectively negates the mana disadvantage, more potential for tempo.
Con’s: your opponent is still drawing a card (…), colossally dependent on new Draw synergy cards.
Both players draw a card. Your card costs 1 less, your opponent’s card costs 1 more.
Pro’s: is a bit more interesting an reduces reward for opponent, maintains both “Seeker” and Draw synergy themes.
Con’s: your opponent is still drawing a card (…), I don’t think this is enough.
(6) “Mindwarper” or “Mind Steal” Effect
- Gain a copy of a random card from your opponent’s action bar.
- Steal a random card from your opponent’s deck and put it into your action bar.
(7) Grow Synergies
- Give a friendly minion Grow +1/+1
These were all of the BBS reworks that most easily came to mind. Most of these are relatively safe, and even some of them seem low in terms of power level. Overall, I’d be happy to see any of these replace his current BBS, as I cannot come to grips with giving my opponents cards (unless CPG makes some Makantor Warbeast-level nonsense for Starhorn). I’d love to hear what you all think!