Duelyst Forums

Starhorn will always be a bad general. Give him Lifetap!

#1

Right now, Starhorn is arguably the worst general in the game. At the very least, I think he is unarguably in the bottom 3. His BBS, on its own, will never be good, because it represents a straight tempo loss whenever it is played. To try and force him into relevancy, Counterplay Games has been designing cards with obnoxious text like “Gain +1/+1 whenever a player draws a card”, with the intention of them seeing use in a Starhorn deck. This is not the way to go. It is not interesting to create such a general.

Hearthstone’s Warlock class is Starhorn done right. You pay 2 life, and you draw a card. 2 life may be too much or too little in Duelyst, but the core idea is sound. With the addition of Blood Taura this month, this prospect is even more exciting. Of course, Starhorn may not actually be the best candidate for Lifetap. Magmar cards may be too strong with such a convenient draw mechanic, and it might be advisable to switch Starhorn’s BBS with another general so that the minions it draws are more appropriate for the power.[poll public=true]

  • Yes, give Starhorn Lifetap (Bloodborn Spell: +1 card, -2 health)!
  • Give another general Lifetap, and swap their BBS with Starhorn’s.
  • Starhorn is great as he is - don’t change him!
  • Starhorn is bad, but I don’t like the idea of Lifetap.
    [/poll]
#2

I haven’t played HS in two years, but the whole time I did play it, the warlock ability was a constant balancing issue. You really want those same problems played out in Duelyst?

4 Likes
#3

maybe if you gave an abbysian general a “kill a friendly minion to draw a card” BBS, you would be on to something.

#4

Card draw is quite an issue and has a lot of value, so it needs a balancing mechanic. But i dont think copying a HP from HS is the way to go.

#5

While I and most of the community would agree that Starhorn BBS is one of the worst, I don’t think giving him the ability to draw a card in expense of health is a good idea.
An ability like that would be too good in my opinion, specially in a faction like Magmar where they already play fast and loose with their health.
Honestly I would like to see something like draw a card, discard a card. It would allow you to dig in your deck looking for specific cards while also getting rid of cards that aren’t as useful in the given situation. It would allow for some combo decks which are non-existent in the meta at the moment.

1 Like
#6
  • starhorn will always be a bad general
  • has literally seen one card in the expansion that supports his playstyle

XD

That being said, I still do believe cards drawn by his BBS should cost 1 less for starhorn since him being able to play the cards first isn’t obviously enough to compensate giving cards to enemy so might as well effectively remove the BBS cost. Of course, that is all implying the new cards aren’t good enough.

#7

i thought of something like: draw a cards. it costs (X) more. But since we have the replace mechanic, it would be useless.

Or maybe like: draw a card and the start of your next turn.

(just mind storming)

#8

i really dont the point of talk about balance changues when a expansion is planed for August. we can’t talk shit without what these 96 cards gonna bring. it can be a card that says “all minions that your opponent draw are transformed in magma” so it make the starhorn BBS a draw and removal at the same time… but who knows? WITHOUT the expansion we can talk much about balance now

#9

No. Trading life for anything in Duelyst is a massive gamble and will leave your General extremely fragile. I’m sure this would only make him worse.

#10

I’m in favor of either a Lifetap kind of bbs for Starhorn or maybe have Starhorn’s bbs be something like “the next minion your draw has +2/+2”. Without the immediate card draw.

#11

this.

Starhorn needs a change, it could be a bbs change, but they can also balance it with cards…for example:

2 mana 2/3 “Whenever you draw a card, Hatch an Egg”

  • remember new rebirth mechanic gives rush, in effect.

^ while a card like this could be used in Vaath, Starhorn could you use a card like this much more consistenly.

C. Burst --> this card --> BBS.

1 Like
#13

Honestly, I would be disappointed if Starhorn’s BBS became lifetap. While Hearthstone’s Life Tap is an interesting mechanic to balance consistent card draw, I’m sure the devs can think of some way to do it without straight up taking it from Hearthstone.

The problem with Starhorn’s BBS is the fact that it is a net negative effect, since you pay 1 for a mirror effect. Changing the cost to zero could be a viable solution, maybe?

#14

I do think that Starhorn’s BBS is super busted since it gives a tempo advantage for the opponent and crutch-style cards which support it are also weak and I don’t think they will ever work properly. And all of that is combined with the fact that Magmar are an inherently tempo-focused faction with great value minions, meaning they don’t even need the draw in many cases.
On the other hand I think in the current state of Duelyst, Lifetap will also be pretty bad. Even if you stick all the healing you can into the deck, it is INCREDIBLY dangerous to lose health. There are a lot of things in the game which murderate you from 10 health: Kara’s tigers, Spiral+Phoenix Fire/Bloodrage/Four Winds, Bounded Lifeforce, Aurora’s Tears+2 Artifacts… and there are many more scenarios where being on low health is a death sentence even though it does not lose you the game immideately. Duelyst has a lot of ways to protect you general, but at the same time there are also huge burst combos. In HS you can afford to go pretty low if you have taunts and playing against any class except the Mage. In Duelyst it is super easy to die. And many don’t even realize it - I have people constantly playing straight into Bounded Lifeforce, and that includes S-rank players.
What I mean by all of that is that even if Starhorn gets Lifetap it might still be pretty bad. Not as bad as his current BBS, but still kinda meh. The way the game is designed, a complete redesign is the way to go IMHO. My suggestions would be:

  • New Cycle - spawn a Young Silithar egg nearby your general. This is potentially very powerful and supports the tempo game Magmar want to play. You will still need to protect the egg, but with the changes to rebirth incoming, you get incredible value starting your next turn.
  • Dance of Dreams - exactly what the card does. While Magmar do not need the card draw as much, with this effect as a BBS, there might be some decks which can make a good use of it, thanks to the reliability.
  • Seeking Eye - you can replace 2 additional times this turn. Okay, I realize this will be way too busted with Mechs, but if that archetype gets a much needed rework, this ability can be really cool and enable some interesting combo decks.
  • Replicate - choose a friendly minion, spawn an egg of that minion on a random space nearby your general. Similar to the first option, this supports the tempo game and gives potential for some cool plays.
2 Likes
#15

I’m not saying starhorn’s BBS is bad, but it is still useful in many circumstances (like trying to top deck removal or lethal for 1 mana). They are thankfully releasing more synergy cards, and while it seems a little underrated, I don’t think it’s wise to give players another reason to complain about HS and Duelyst similarities.

#16

Without going into much details, yes I think Starhorn is pretty bad atm.
LIfetap, however, isn’t the way to go imho.
Because I don’t want more Duelyst/ HS similarities or comparison and because it would suck on Starhorn.
There’s rarely a game where I find myself thinking that I could have traded any life for a card draw.

#17

Warlock in Hearthstone has their entire class cards balanced around Lifetap. All their cards are either flat out weaker (compare Darkbomb with Quickshot/Frostbolt) or come with drawbacks such as discard or paying with health. This is because card draw/card advantage is incredibly strong.

For a faction like Magmar, Lifetap would not work. Their minions are high quality minions with either stickiness, rush or persistent value, and their spells feature both ramp and high quality removal.

1 Like
#18

Honestly that’s probably one of the best suggestions I have seen

Seeking eye-gives you the power replace twice this turn

I think thematically it works,It is very powerful but you have to give up something a card to make it happen.The effect already exists game so it wouldn’t be that hard to put in.

#19

Unfortunately, we will have to see Mechaz0r reworked before it can happen, but I also think this is probably the best option, which will allow Starhorn to become THE combo General.

#20