Spell inconsistency


#1

Hello everyone!

After playing with my new Lyonar deck I discovered something rather weird. Call to Arms can be dispelled. At first I thought that it worked as intended but I later noticed that Bounded Lifeforce (which has a similar effect) can not be dispelled. That is when I realised that the two cards have a major difference: CtA has your General gains… while BL has your General becomes… The first can be dispelled but the second one can’t ! Other such examples with the wording “become” are Grandmaster sir, Equality Constraint, Hexblade, Mark of Solitude and Enfeeble. In addition, Grandmaster Variax has the wording “is now…” which I believe functions in the same way. This creates some confusion since the wording “becomes” is never explained by the game itself. It is not a keyword yet sometimes works like an Opening Gambit. I theorize that it was created so that the effect it provides can’t be dispelled. Thus you can not kill your opponent by simply dispelling him and reverting him to his previous state which might even be 0. However, there seems to be a lack of explanation regarding how it works. This is where I suggest we either:

a) Make it into a keyword
…or…
b) Somehow explain how it works and what its restrictions are. This can be done through solo challanges.

Lastly, I would also like to suggest buffing Call to Arms. By following my previous logic of how “becomes” works, I would change it into:

7 mana "From now on your General becomes able to give nearby summoned minions +3/+3.

This makes it so the effect can’t be dispelled. Honestly, the way it is now the card has little to no impact. You waste an entire turn to do nothing. It feels horrible when your spell gets nullified the next turn by Emp.

What do you guys think? Should this be a keyword? Does it open new design options? Like the new CtA or are you a Lyonar hater? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#2

I always thought it was quite clear, tbh. Bounded is a transform effect (so maybe using the word “transform” is the way to go), and transforms are never dispellable, see Mark of Solitude as example.

But I’m all for making Call to Arms undispellable. With all the ridiculous endgame options we have now it will be fair, I guess.

And I don’t like Lyonar much :grinning:


#3

A clear distinction between what is dispellable and what is not is something that every player would appreciate. Unfortunately cards wording was never really good in Duelyst and at this point it will never be. You have to learn how cards works on your own. Btw i agree with call to arm beeing undispellable and another undispelable effect should be Hexclaw one


#4

I actually against Hexclaw effect being undispellable…cause it’s burn, and we don’t like burn in Dooli, do we?


#5

Its a very expensive and slow form of burn. Also unless you dfs or consuming rebirth your own hexclaw its not immediate and you can dispell the minion. I think it would be fine


#6

Both Hexclaw and Call to Arms never see any play, do they? I’d say making their effects undispellable is a acceptable buff, if not still insufficient.


#7

Any card that permanently “sets” a minion or generals stats to something cannot be dispelled (Mark of Solitude, Hexblade, Enfeeble, Bounded Lifeforce ect.). Unfortunately, It is not always clear from the wording on the cards that this is the case.

While we are on the topic of making other effects like Hexclaw’s undispellable I suggest making the Bloodfire Totems summoned by Spinecleaver immune to dispell too. It would only be fair given how hard it is to get them in the first place and when you consider that there are many ways to remove the totems even wothout dispell it wouldn’t end up being OPed.


#8

In other words we all still want to nerf EMP :rofl:


#9

We should make a summary of things that are *** confusing until you experienced their interactions in real games
-Channeled breath :doesn,t proc multiple healabilitys
-sunstone teamplar:does he trigger combatabilitys (thunderhorn,tahr,…)or does he dispel before that?(i see him so rarely that i don,t know )
-Strategos:WTF description
-Alabaster titan:WTF description
-the already mentioned ,gains, and ,becomes,
-All the inconsistent sentinel interactions
-rebirth minions lose all extras once they hatch
-Notion of starless eternity:another WTF description
-Spectral blade:it heals of a dying minion even if that minion destroys it with its attack
-Gate to the undervault:what are demons?(the 6/6/6 minions)
-Nightshroud and death knell interaction:since death knell summons in a random order its random how much health NS steals.Problem is:evolutionary apex,a card that literally works the same way summons all minions at once and THAN activates their effects at the same time
-Grandmaster variax:another WTF description
-doom can,t be dispelled
-eternal heart:can you go -health?Can something that breaks it kill at the same time?Since i never face heart i don,t know
-hatching gives rush
-Armada:target selection over long distances
-apex:all minions are summoned at once and all effects trigger at the same time
-transforming your own minion doesn,t exhaust it(especialy in regard to walls)
-the build keyword isn,t realy explained ingame(can,t be dispelled)
-icebreak ambush:another WTF description
-gambler can potentialy attack until you are dead
-intensify triggers even if not summoned from your action bar
-Hsuku:what buffs can he give?(don,t know)
-Purgatos:you can,t choose
-Sphynx:what is the riddle
-Thunderhorn:joined?
-Lodestar:SOME things?:face_with_raised_eyebrow:
Spriggin.what are kin?
-Astral crusader:does not buff other crusaders if replaced
-BIIIIIIIG one:you can ramp out EMP at 6 mana with metallurgist but if you play him at 7mana with metallurgist you lose 7mana insted of 6
-Reliquarian:WTF description
-Rook:WTF description
-Khymera:it can summon anything and that becomes a token insted of it only beeing able to summon tokens only


#10

I actually really like Strategos’s text, as well as many other ones that aren’t immediately apparent, like those of Undervault and Lodestar. They’re just so flavorful and really give the card some personality.

How have I never noticed this before? Either way, I don’t think Metallurgist should be able to ramp out EMP because Opening Gambit effects activate before the minion is summoned. But I’m not complaining because my Golem Zirix deck is doing quite well.


#11

Oh, fck. Never thought about that, but fun part is - it’s working as intended :rofl:

:rofl:

Just having fun, no offence :slight_smile:

Don’t want to work :confused:


#12

I’m a fan of keywords and I’d welcome more of them especially for these kind of things.


#13

Hexclaw is so bad that it’s effect definitely deserves the dispel-immunity treatment. It’s a cool design and has flavor, shame to see all that wasted on a garbage card.


#14

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