[Speculation] New generals: what might they look like?


#1

Hello everyone! Denizens of Shim’zar fleshed out many of the subthemes surrounding various factions. However, quite few deck archetypes still feel as though they lack something. Altrnate generals have been used to bring out some previously weak decks, so, could another set of generals build on current weak archetypes? If so what would they look like? Here are my speculations:

Another thing; I want to see generals with facial expressions outside of Grr I’m angry" and roles outside of military leader. Starhorn, Sajj, and Cassyva added a bit more diversity, but I want to see even more varied generals.


Lyonar:
Give ANY character provoke until the start of your next turn.

Argeon Zir’an already has synergy with large minions. Argeon has aggro covered while Zir’an explores heal synergies. This Bloodborn spell is quite versatile, able to be used to expose enemy minions protected by provoke, Protect your general with your own minions, Expose the enemy general if they are being protected, and protect your minions with your general if need be. Provoke is also a heavily Lyonar keyword. Overall, I wanted Lyonar to have a very versatile spell that helped both aggro and control.

General design: A minister or tactician wearing a military uniform instead of armour. Something that shows the diplomatic power of the Lyonar, not just their military strength.


Songhai
Deal 1 damage to a minion, then deal 0 damage to a minion

Cards like Storm Sister, Crescent Spear, Eight Gates, and Storm Kage are begging for more playable damage dealing spells in Songhai. Kaleos and Reva have backstab and ranged covered respectively, so why not give sell damage some love? The continued access to a damage dealing spell that scales with Spell damage might make spell damage based control quite viable.

General design: A wizened old master with little physical power but vast wisdom and mental capabilities. Perhaps wielding a weaponized instrument.


Vetruvian
The next card you draw/ replace into is a copy of target enemy minion. It costs 1 less and has +1/+1

Since artifact Vetruvian and Dervish Vetruvian already have great generals, why not make a sabotage Vetruvian general? This Bloodborn spell would be vastly different from most others in that, while it does not provide any immediate advantage, it allows you to “fix” your next draw or replace. The copied minion will be quite powerful, but the opponent will be able to anticipate and play around it. Overall, this type pf BBS will introduce a wide range of different games and interesting decisions without relying too much on RNG.

General design: A small Egyptian mummy jar projecting a hologram of a Pharaoh. Essentially, a general who fell in battle but whose mind was transferred into an AI


Abyssian:
Deal 3 damage to your general, at the start of your next turn, heal your general by 7

I wanted to make a BBS that increased the survival of your general that was more exciting than a straight up heal. This ability heals your general by 4 points, a significant health swing. However, this comes at the price of being much more vulnerable to burst before the healing can set in. This risk/reward system feels pretty consistent with Abyssian’s general theme of decay, sacrifice, and ends justifying means. This ability would be useful in “grinder” type Abyssian decks, where they stall out the game until they can use either creep of big minions to finish the opponent general.

General Design: A corrupted version of a Magmar aspect. Perhaps a magmar realized what Keliano realized in her ciphertext and joined the Abyssian to work against the tree.


Magmar:
Summon a 0/1 young silithar egg near your general

With eggmar falling flat due to lack of effective cards, why not add a general to support this failing archetype. The power of this ability is about on par with Reva’s. If the egg survives, it becomes a very sticky minion and generates superb value. However, it is difficult to place it so that the opponent cannot destroy it, since, unlike Reva’s heartseekers, the egg lacks ranged and Magmar generally want their general to be in the midst of battle.

General design: A weak looking human female that serves as the Avatar/ reincarnation of the Magmar mother-queen. Commands monstrous beasts to do attacks.


Vanar
Reflect the board about the center column. Then, summon a 0/2 bonechill barrier next to your general.

Kara and Faie both have very versatile bloodborn spells that can be used in a variety of decks. However, there are no specific spells that support archetypes such as Wall, Vespyr, or Infiltrate. This BBS is designed to help all three. The summoned Barrier is both a wall and a Vespyr, having synergy with cards that care about those, and the reflection effect can make your units always infiltrated or set up for huge Avalanche/ Wailing overdrive plays.

General design: An bearded warrior missing his right arm. Referencing Tyr from Norse mythology, this general does not want a prosthetic replacement since the missing arm symbolized duty and sacrifice.


#2

These are very cool ideas, but strike me as almost uniformly overpowered, especially the Abyssian and Vanar ones. Vanar’s infiltrate mechanism and ability to use Avalanche would make that BBS insane. And it is exactly because Abyssian has other means of healing that a net 5 heal is too strong.

The Magmar one is cool, though compare that to Zirix’s vanilla 2/2. I’m not sure Songhai needs any more direct damage. The Lyonar one I think is probably the most interesting in terms of opening play types, and the most balanced, but would have worked better before Slo and Ironcliffe Heart.


#3

Thanks for the the suggestions! I’ll rebalance them a little.


#4

While it would be super cool to have new generals i think they will be released kn the very far future, if at all. Balancing is a mess as it is, and it gets more difficult the more cards are released adding more general would make it a nightmare


#5

At this point I’d rather see more factions than actual generals. There’s lots of unexplored themes after all.

Anyway:

Lyonar - Cool idea, especially how it enables generals to have provoke. I believe the game could really benefit from a mechanic like that. Only issue here is how it works really well with hollow. I’d like to avoid mechanics that make certain neutrals just too good. Current examples being tiger in kara and dioltas in lyonar. And I’d also like to avoid changing the core mechanics of hollow as I see it as a classic card of sort.

Songai - I don’t like it. Having to target two things to make it work is too tiresome and the fact how the latter part of the spell does zero damage doesn’t still well with me. I know it’s supposed to work with spell power but I’m sure there’s better ways to do it.

Vet - Not sure is having both cost reduction and stat buff is fair or not, but I do like the idea.

Abyssian - Also a good idea, but I dislike the value. It’s that kind of BBS that needs to have it’s values tuned perfectly in order for it not to be broken and the 3-7 ratio is too good imo. Honestly it’s such a weird BBS I can’t tell what’s the perfect ratio.

Magmar - I like it, but I’m not sure how balanced it is. I want to say it’s too strong with current egg mechanics but I don’t know how good egg magmar is yet so I can’t say for sure.

Vanar - Too game changing and too complicated. Board is too big of a factor for BBS to have such a huge impact on it.


#6

i think they should make the abbysian general one of the male abbysians, considering both generals are currently female and it could maybe fit a ramp abbysian that people are currently theorycrafting about. maybe something along the lines of, the next minion you summon costs 4 less and is destroyed at the end of your next turn. this could synergise with ramp and dying wish cards and might spawn some new archetypes


#7

I really like your general design ideas, although some could be reworked (maybe have the Vanar one have an effect that generates walls or have it push our pull enemies like mesmerize?). Going off of what @deekester said, maybe have the alternate abyssian and Vanar generals be male and somehow have the Magmar be female (although I don’t know how it would work lore wise. Then again, they do have Taygete and moloki huntress), while at the same time have the ratio of male to female generals be equal. Great concepts, would you mind if I tried to make concept sketches of these designs at some point?


#8

The Lyonar and SongHai ones definitely have some merit to them (better than anything I could come up with) but the rest are pretty ridiculous for Bloodborn Spells. The Magmar one is also kind of nice considering all the egg synergy we got in Shimzar. That copy spell for the Vetruvian General could very well be a spell for the next expansion :wink: but as a 1 mana spell available on every other turn… yeah, its a little ridiculous.

Anyway, here’s the ones I had tucked away in my secret little file:

Vanar: Summon a Bonechill Barrier in a nearby space. (Vespyr and Wall synergy) For the design? Dwarf! Dwarf! Dwarf!

SongHai: Draw a Spell card. (Thin your own deck and draw, invaluable in Spellhai, a nongarbage Starhorn ;)) Obviously, you need to have this General levitate in a meditative stance. Give him a billowing cloak or beard and you have the Ram to further fill the Chinese Zodiac theme.

Lyonar: A friendly unit takes 2 less damage the next time it takes damage. (Thematic ties to Regalia, synergy with Celerity minions and Tempest) Caliber-0. Not even joking, I want Caliber-0 as a Lyonar General.


#9

Though i really like the idea of more generals in the future, with more BBS and archetypes, i preffer CPG to fix /make viable the currents ones.

ShimZar brought a lot of good and new stuff, while empowering some old ideas. but:
Sajj is only but starting to see play.
Ziran still bottom tier.
Starhorn … well, the only time i play this general is in daily challenges
Kara, in my opinion, still need a fix in her BBs

So yeah, im all in this game expantion, but lets take a look at the present state first.


#10

i don’t think taygete and the huntress are magmar. i don’t read the lore much but i think all of the magmar units are just creatures that live in magaari, not one of the 13 magmar aspects


#11

if you did that as a songhai general, they would need to buff starhorn. no question. that bbs is just better in every way


#12

Yeah, and a male Abyssian General would have to be a perverted, dangerous life form for lore reasons as well.

Also, @akurane, please please PLEASE make the concept sketches and post them here :smiley:


#13

I like your ideas exco, I’ll add that I’d like to see a silver lion as a Lyonar General, that’d be cool!

:sunglasses:


#14

I would be honoured if you made sketches inspired in some way by these!


#15

Great topic!

I don’t know if it will be too good will hollow grovekeeper, but in the dark it might be ok , also the possibilty to give provoke to the general seems interesting.

As long as it doesn’t deal face damage I am ok with it. I like it because it makes spell damage better.

I like the idea, but it might be too strong as it is, either you don’t let the player choose the minion to copy and it will automatically be the last one played or you let the player choose but you remove the cost reduction or the +1+1 bonus.

The first BBS I don’t like healing 4 is way too strong IMO even if delayed , also it doesn’t feel very abyssian my suggestion:

Loose 1 life the opponent must discard the last card he drew.

I always wanted to introduce disruption in Duelyst, this BBS is basically a reverse warlock ability.

I love it, just wondering if it would not be too good with the new rebirth rule . Look fine in the dark

I don’t understand sorry ^^. But I like the idea of supporting both vespyr/walls.


#17

I wanna play, too!

Lyonar:
General: Lucian Ironfist


**BBS:**Dispel the next enemy your General attacks this turn (before damage is dealt).

Songhai:
General: Zanakai Omanand


(Yes, she sits down every time she stops moving.)
**BBS:**Your General is immune to damage from Generals and deals double damage to Generals until the end of your turn.

Vetruvian:
General: Nusar Anteasperian

**BBS:**A nearby friendly minion gains Blast. It dies at the end of your turn.

Abyssian:
General: Bellah Adonai

**BBS:**Replace every card in your Action Bar. (This does not trigger on-Replace effects.) Gain 1 HP per card replaced.

Magmar:
General: Nachetas the Heterodox


**BBS:**Minions in your Action Bar have their casting costs reduced by 1.

Vanar:
General: Aurora Steelgaze


**BBS:**Summon a 1/3 Provoke Vespyr Wall nearby your General.


#18

Alright, so I am not up to date on lore, so these are the design motifs that I am currently settled on for the factions. I tried to design it in a way that would make the gender ratio equal with all factions combined. Feedback and ideas are highly welcomed. I plan on starting the designs at some point tomorrow.

Lyonar
Sense this is the only faction that has a darker skinned general, I’ve been thinking about a dark skinned male general that either uses a Lance and shield, gauntlets, or a reaper/fencing sword. Shields seem to be a trend in Lyonar, so I want to try and include one in the design.

Songhai
The generals are based off of Chinese new year animals (Kaleos is tiger and Reva is dragon), so I was thinking maybe the third would be a brown haired female with either a sheep or rabbit motif. Alternatively, it could be a male based off of dog and have gray hair. they would have some blade as a weapon, but since the other Songhai generations have extra robotic limbs for weapons as well, they would also have some form of unique robotic long for combat add well.

Magmar
Most likely one of the thirteen aspects. I haven’t caught up on lore, so I don’t know the names of the others or which one would be the best to fit this role.

Vetruvian
Not a lot for this, I was thinking of a partial mask, we’re the mask would have a different design on each side. I’m also thinking on being the design on one of the main Egyptian gods, since the faction had an Egyptian theme to it.

Abyssian
I’m thinking of a wraithling like being/male abyssian, with a tortured or scarred look to himself and a violent nature as well. I think this will also fit the BBS design as well :grin:.

Vanar
For Vanar, I also had in mind off the idea of a male beast creature for the general. I haven’t decided a lot on this either.

To make the genders an equal 9:9 ratio, 2 of the above generals will be female while the others will be makes. As it stands currently, I will either make Songhai and Vetruvian have female generals or (what will most likely happen) have Songhai and either Vanar or abyssian be female, so that their is both am all male (Magmar) and all female general. Feel free to give your thoughts and opinions, I’ll try to make it resemble @excogitator 's BBS designs as much as possible~


#19

Okay, I have a rough early concept of the Lyonar general. I still need to design the weapon, and I’m currently thinking of giving him more armor and tank like, rather than gladiator like, to make it match his provoke BBS. I’ll upload the Songhai rough sketch soon.


#20

Already loving it :smiley:


#21

Songhai general, based on a ram/sheep! I won’t have time to draw the next few rough concepts on my color like the Lyonar one, so expect the rest to be pictures of the sketch from my phone.
@thefirstgokun Thank you for the kind words :blush:

She is supposed to have horn like limbs on her back to hold her long sword. He turns can also burn with fire at the tips (possibly as a mark II design).