Duelyst Forums

Soo.. Smite Tactics.. did they copy Duelyst's gameplay?

#43

The only thing about Smite Tactics being a source of competition is that Counterplay has literally done everything as right as you can expect a group of human beings to develop a game. They took huge risks in the face of lots of doubt - going to 1 draw per turn which improved the gameplay diversity by about 1000% at least. They give us great pull rates and monthly cards - and the sisters as rewards for being collectors. They are doing everything right ALREADY.

What is smite tactics going to teach Counterplay with their competition? They let CP take the risk with a low budget art entry and now they wanna swoop in with 3d art after the concept has already been proven and streamlined to near perfection!

#44

I fear the answer to this will be “marketing”.

It’s not flashy, it is not anything gamers would claim was important to them, but it ultimately is probably more critical to the success of a game than any other factor.

This is not intended as a criticism of CPG, just a recognition that this is how large companies can crush small companies even with an inferior product.

ETA: To give you an idea of what I am talking about, Duelyst has about 11,000 Twitter followers. Smite has roughly 954,000. Even if only 1% of them are interested in this new game, that’s a lot.

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#45

Sad but true. WOW is a prime example of this.

WOW has only been successful due to blizzards incredible marketing campain combined with a massive budget. When in reality the game is years behind in both graphics, gameplay, and writing then many completly free international games from Korea/Japan.

It also has a pretty toxic community. It turned the amazing lore filled history of the Warcraft series into this awkward cookie cutter MMo, and has gone the way of Stephen King Novels. Yea he has some great books but he writes so many of them so quickly that the quality really began to decline, same with WOWs constant churning out of expansions. I have not even mentioned my hatered of subscriptions, and wow does BOTH sub and out of pocket purchase.

Its sort of a terrible game, but Blizzard has been so successful that it has just crushed it’s competition, where as all of these international games and fledgling Indy companies most people have never even heard of since they can’t compete with Blizzards Reputatuon and Wallet.

Some competition can be really bad. If you crush your competition you can get away with a lot of shady buisness and a mediocre game because people almost don’t have a choice but to play it, since little Indy games like this just can’t draw the same type of numbers, especialy if there is some big name developer game siphoning away its community.

I think it is way to soon to criticize them. They may make a great game that is quite different from Duelyst. Let’s wait to get up in arms untill after it is out.

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#46

Original ideas are nonexistent. You could say that Duelyst copied chess, or that chess copied checkers. Get over yourselves.

#47

Honestly i don’t think it is a bad thing to copy the good parts from an existing game, but you always have to add some new ideas.

Btw: I’ll never get it why you would choose those crappy 3D-graphics over real 2D-ART. For example Stronghold Crusader looks much better in my opinion than Stronghold Crusader 2. A game is not necessarily better if it is 3D.

#48

Hi-Rez for example could teach CPG how run a TCG similar to theirs with a business and pricing model that relies more on the carrot and less the stick and thus feels better to the players while still bringing in enough profit to sustain the game and future development.

#49

how is counterplay not already using a business model that is friendly to players? This is literally the most generous CCG I’ve ever played. A free legendary for making Mediocre/For Fun Division each month? That’s all carrot and nearly no stick imo.

#50

I don’t mean to be rude or try to change your opinion, but I think that repeating the same statement is all threads is not making it more convincing to others :slight_smile: You should definitely try to play other CCGs for a while and check whether their business model is better than this one. I’m building an excellent collection in Duelyst just by playing less than a hour per day, mostly doing dailies.

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#51

Did you try any of the new TCGs that recently have cropped up all over the place? The F2P progression in Elder Scrolls Legends and Shadowverse seems much better. In neither of these games I ever had the feeling to be held back by a limited card collection or that acquiring new cards is too grindy. On the other hand I started Duelyst around 2 month ago and still struggle to get my hands on basic cards while having 2-3 times the amount of time spend on it. Frankly the only other TCG I played that was worse, is Hearthstone.

#52

I tired one of these, ESL, and quit it after a week. One of the reasons was cost and the pace of progress without paying money compared to Duelyst. IIRC it 15g/3wins instead of 15g/2wins. The games are also glacially long, so it is actually much worse than that.

You don’t get 25g per day just for breathing, and quests IIRC require wins, not just attempts.

But mostly, no board, and a terrible “you get punished for winning” mechanism that means every game takes upward of 15 minutes, did it in for me.

#53

To be honest I do not even know how much gold I get for wins. I did the solo content which gave me a decent starter collection. I do the dailies each days which gives 40-70 gold depending on the type. Some of them give bonus follow up quests. And I get gold and a card (of random rarity) for the first win each day and more free cards when my character levels up. When I take a look at my collection and the cards I am missing I seem to make good progress considering I only spend about half an hour each day in it. One could say the progress is that good that I did not even think about the progress much. It feels satisfying and natural. Maybe the fact that each booster pack contains 6 and not 5 cards makes the difference.

#54

One could also say that it’s confirmation bias since you seem absolutely convinced that every game but HS is more generous than this one.

Oh, I forgot about the free card. They used to give you a card of rare or higher rarity every 3 wins I believe. They nerfed it to a common the week I was there.

At any rate, I don’t actually care how generous they were, because the game is terrible. It’s an HS clone with two sides (which in terms of adding strategic dimension is worth about 5% of Duelyst’s board.) Every match took 10+ minutes, often 15+ minutes, and their “prophecy” cards make winning or losing more subject to RNG than even Hearthstone.

#55

Only every other digital TCG that I played to far except HS. Also I started playing ESL before Duelyst so my opinion on ESL’s F2P progress being confirmation bias makes no logical sense because the opinion to confirm did not yet exist.

#56

Its still true that you repeat your message of duelysts gold-earning-system being unfair in every other thread but refuse to have fun and craft some rares and commons for the sake of mathematical perfection that in reality doesn’t get you anywhere, while not acknowledging that its not only about sustainment but also profit and that as a f2p player you aren’t supposed to get all the cards you need very fast and without grinding. I assume you either can’t read this since you blocked me or will ignore it though so its fine, its a moot point anyways.

As far as Smite is concerned: I mean most of these mechanics aren’t really sth. new to begin with except the board and the replace mechanism its just how it goes in the gaming world really, people will adopt successfull concepts, and that isn’t a bad thing usually, there is always some space for individual details. I am most likely going to stick with duelyst though, since i really like the game outside of some balancing decisions like killing kron and the preorder thing, but i mean i am just not gonna preorder anymore, i have a decent collection at this point anyways so i might as well just save up ingame gold. And i mean this game isn’t really more of a competitor than any other CCG just because it has a board, so i am also not too worried about the playerbase.

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#57

‘Unfair’ it not really a good term when talking about a business model/pricing structure of a video game since nobody forces one to buy it and it is not something essential one cannot live without. It is just plainly bad: Bad for new players, bad for player conversion, bad for the player numbers and thus effectively also bad for long time players and CPG themselves and their earnings. I may sound like a broken record and I am honestly sorry if it annoys you or anyone else but I will continue to say my opinion on this until things change for the better.

#58

Firstly, that was not their official statement, they said the mode was abused by people playing standard decks. Secondly, I’d say it’s the other way round - lack of unranked mode results in fewer players.

#59

Companies like CPG generally hire experts to determinate monetization. If they make good choices they will thrive, bad ones and they will not. Regardless, they have the data and we don’t.

The facts are that you can earn about a pack a day in this game for free in about an hour. That’s not true of a lot of other games. It’s definitely not true of ESL.

#60

I reroll every 40g quest into 50/60/70 g quest. With the 20g for the first win and 15g or something for 3 wins that is 85-105 gold just for winning 3 games while completing the daily. If you use the 3 slots for quests to your advantage you can work towards completing multiple quests simultaneously. As I said that takes me on average half an hour per day and gives me close to 1 free pack (6 cards) plus one card for the first win. If you play fast aggro decks some games are done in turn 6/7. If you cannot earn a free pack with an hour play time per day you are doing it wrong.

#61

Okay, this has quickly become bickering about other various issues. I am going to lock it.

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#62