Songhai Replay - Early Kill


#1

So, today I was playing Songhai. I won on curve in 3 turns as Player 1.
Enjoy the video, and I hope you don’t die afterwards

Are you sure you want to do this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF07orFIxAw


#2

I think you posted the wrong video


#3

No, no, this is good. SongHai really fucked him over on that one.


#4

Woops, I did stuff up


#5

There was a small misplay on Kaleos’s end. He should have moved before attacking the Katara, as he took 4 damage instead of 1 because of the backstab effect. Doing this would not have been enough to not lose on the next turn but he would have lived 1 or 2 turns more.

I think that the problem with Songhai is that they just have too much potential. They have extremely situational cards but when they match together(extremely common) then they get waaay to much value out of chaining short combos together.


#6

I would have won anyway on my turn, with the one wasted damage from a Phoenix Fire and a General hit would have won it :slight_smile:


#7

Alex, it’s pretty well known here that I’m among the crowd that feels Songhai is over the top right now. But I can’t help but feel that this was just a combination of a good draw and some questionable plays on the part of your opponent.

The first was referenced by @BlankTrack above. This move suggests that this was a new player or someone who just wasn’t playing his best.

But really, his big mistake was turn 1. You played two Kataras starting out. He didn’t plan to use the mana tile, so why move up and make it possible for you to get at least one of your minions in backstab range? He’s playing Songhai, he knows that Jux is a thing, that IF is a thing, that KE is a thing.

People laugh at me when I tell them I sometimes just stay on the back rank when I see backstabbers being put down, and of course it’s not always the right play. But there’s no more effective way of preventing a backstab than not having a back. And here? Two Kataras down and he’s planning to play a ranged unit off tile? Moving up made no sense. He stays back and you do only a fraction of the damage you actually did, and maybe he even gets to exploit your depleted hand.


#8

Duelyst - Infinite Depth, Lightning-Fast Matches


#9

I’m not saying I played optimally, or my opponent didn’t. My problem is that Songhai is the only faction where this is possible. I’m not saying because I won is that Songhai needs to change. It’s the potential to wipe you this fast, that’s the unintuitive and unfun part


#10

I agree that some of Songhai’s minions and spells are too cheap for what they do, and you showcased a couple of them there. And to play devil’s advocate to my own previous post, when ‘stay on the back wall’ is a strategy that alone suggests a problem.

I just wanted to point out that this isn’t the best example of a 3-turn kill.

Songhai isn’t the only faction that can do it. Abyssian swarm can kill super fast with a god hand. So can Magmar. The other 3 probably can’t kill you in 3 turns but they can put you in a position where the result is inevitable.


#11

I agree with you.

The major misplay here was moving towards the mana tiles to play a ranged minion. Why should you do that? Just stay in the back, put your minion there and wait for your opponent. He could not even contend the mana tiles effectively with the Widowmaker.

The OP had a good starting hand, but he was able to exploit it due to bad positioning by his opponent. I really think we could have seen a different match if the opponent had a different start. I’m not saying I never do these errors, just commenting on this one :slight_smile:


#12

You misspelled fun-hai


#13

Well that’s a clickbait.

Naming a thread “why songhai needs to change” and then posting a video with excrutiatingly low quality where you win on T3 against an enemy who doesn’t know the basics of the game ie how positioning and backstab mechanic works. Not to mention he’s running widowmakers which obviously implies he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Plenty of decks can win that early when the enemy does most of the job for you due to them being bad at the game and such examples really say nothing about the deck’s real strength.

If the thread is a parody or about how backstab mechanic isn’t very clear and how songhai is often strong because they abuse enemy’s positioning mistakes, then I’m fine with it.


#14

It’s way too common for Songhai to get those draws.


#15

I had the same thing with Vaath and Kara.

Just compare this in frequency with the total amount of games you played as Reva.
1-offs really do not mean anything.

It’s possible for a person to have only 8 spells in his deck and not draw a minion or artifact until turn 4, does that mean if that happened once the whole faction or deck or card-drawing mechanic is broken?
No. In fact, assuming a huge amount of games played the chance of this happening will approach 100%.

Just to illustrate the fact that unlikely things happening once really doesn’t mean much.


#16

It’s similar to what @alstein said. The problem is that Songhai is far too versatile and has too many ways to win a game, and with almost no damaging spells I won the game. Even if the opponent had moved up to avoid the backstab damage, I still would have won the next turn with the wasted damage from my Phoenix Fires.

Songhai as a faction, is very bursty, and Counterplay is happy with that. But when I don’t buff a single minion, and win by playing Juxtapositions and Inner Focuses. That’s almost too hard to play against, and this is probably the gripe that people have most with Songhai. Even with god draws, there is still some counterplay against other factions.

The versatility of Songhai and it’s multiple ways to win, coupled with the fact that there is little to no counterplay against Songhai, it’s this that is the problem. Songhai has too many ways to win, too many powerful cards. That’s what needs to change


#17

that kaleos easily could’ve come back from this game but he doesn’t even know the basics of the game. that kaleos could’ve moved up all the way avoiding the katara on the bottom mana tile and phoenix fired the katara that was in reach of him. then he could’ve hit the lantern fox with the widowmaker. even if you did your entire combo he would’ve had 7 hp left and a widowmaker on board while the katara was out of reach for another 2-3 turns. if you wanted to answer the widowmaker following your combo then you would’ve had to leave the kaleos alone. plus you would’ve been left top decking while he had an almost full hand. this kaleos could’ve easily comeback from this if this wasn’t bronze-silver game knowledge


#18

I personally don’t think it’s healthy for turn 3 lethal to be attainable in any ccg unless the developers intended for the game to be played in 3 turns, but Duelyst is not intended to be a turn 3 lethal game and I think that there should be a focus on the power of songhai ins the coming patch.


#19

Zero. Mana. Spells.


#20

Disappointed in this clickbait Alexicon. :frowning:

Against double Katara, he should have just hugged the wall.