So, the population


#61

Also forgetting HS is backed by a huge (biggest ?) gaming company, the Activision-Blizzard-King “consortium” (yeah, CoD and Candy Crush, to quote just a couple). They can generate half a billion revenue per year, have a 30millions playerbase and a much bigger dev team with all the marketing/com power behind them.

Seriously, compare what’s comaprable.

Yeah, the 2 guys in food truck down my street are making burgers, just as Mc Donald, but I’d never dare to compare … even if they are more expensive, deliver not as fast, don’t have special menus, aren’t open 24/7 etc etc. I’ll be stupid to compare.


We need a fixed post for duelyst memes
#62

I will say it again: Bring back the monthly cards, it was a good driver for player participation. And it cannot seriously be that problematic to produce 4 cards/month.


#63

That wasn’t the “problem”.
CPG didn’t want to let the core set grow ad infinitum. This, by the way, would really be very new-player-unfriendly because the chances of getting one special Legendary decreases, the more Legendaries a set has. This would would be terrible for the core set.


#64

Maybe something like a specific “Time Twister” set that includes previous monthly cards and the ones to come might be a way out. This will avoid the core set problem, but again, this set will also grow up to infinity, but can be breaked apart whenever a certain ammount of cards is in it. For example when the ammount of cards in this “Time Twister” set reaches 200, older 100 cards will be grouped up in a separate set, that will not be changed, and the other 100 will form the basis fo new Twister.


#65

Monthly cards were awful. They skew the ratio of the core set and make it bigger and bigger. If cpg introduced 1 new card of each rarity to the core set every month, the core set would asymptotically approach 1:1:1:1 rarity ratio. And just grow infinitely. If anything, they should be taking the old monthly cards out of the core set and coming up with alternate ways to attain them. Like discount crafting or something.


#66


Just saying


#67

This is correct… Of all the players in the game, I’m probably the one guy that swings between love/hate the most.

Thus usual pattern for me is a frenzy of activity followed by burnout disillusionment and a disappearance act. About 2 months ago I posted my acc password in general discord, trying to give away my account. Pylons snapped it out and gave it back to me 3 weeks later. Fast forward a month or two and I’m uploading almost daily Duelyst content to youtube.

Go back even further and some of you hear may even remember that I streamed duelyst consistently for a while (and then quit, 3 times!)…and before that there was my first youtube channel (deleted) and blog dedicated to Duelyst strategy articles (https://kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.wordpress.com/).

So yeah, that’s my pattern — bursts of activity followed by burnout.


But anyway, since I’m here I might as well offer a few insights as to what I think Duelyst needs, but I wont offer specific solutions because, well, there is basically no point in doing so.


Problem (1): Meta / Card Design

At the end of day, Hearthstone has a large enough playerbase that in can survive almost any meta shit-storm that the devs can throw it. — HS could lose 1,000 players a day for 6 months due to Pirate Warrior and still not give a shit. Duelyst simply does not have that Luxury.

What we need more than anything is an enjoyable meta — and of course enjoyment is a subjective thing. But, speaking only for myself I’m not a fan of mechs (these days, anyway), nor was I fan of pets from shimzar, Variax, Meltdown and more recently Arcanyst meta.

Personally, I feel that the best way to play duelyst is to make decks that are as uninteractive as possible. – Now, this is true of ALL competitive games (the best strats are always going to be the ones that greatly restrict the opponents options), thus the only solution is for devs to not give us too many uninteractive tools.

I’d also like to point out that, unlike HS, we have combo decks where the individual pieces are great. For example, in HS Leeroy Jenkins + Power Overwhelming + Faceless Manipulator is 20 dmg for 10 mana (*note, this is when I played HS, both Leeroy and PO have been nerfed since). And for a while, this was combo was the defacto finisher of Handlock decks.

From a design point of view I felt this was okay at the time. Why? because all of the 3 combos cards where rather situational; you can’t curve out with Leeroy, and likewise curving out with Faceless was frequently tough to do. Poweroverwhelming had a few combos (shadowflame, Windrunner) but overall the card was fairly cumbersome.

Now lets compare with Duelyst. Decimus (unlike Leeroy) is playable on curve. And since Tetonic draws you cards its hardly a “situational” spell. The Upshot is Starhorn has ascess to incredible burst without so much of the “clunky hand” drawback you would see in HS.

Cryptographer / Drogon is the same deal — both cards are easy to just curve out with and late-game can deliver more damage than a more dedicated OTK deck (think Flash Elucidatior Fractal all those eons ago). If interested I’ve outlined this criticism of Duelysts design (amoung other things) in more detail in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Seb0NK9lxFI&ytbChannel=Smash_the_hamster

In short, we desperately need an enjoyable meta. For me personally I think that entails an emphasis on board mechanics, fewer “kill now or lose the game” minions, burst combos should play like “combo decks” (and ‘normal’ decks should have access to such burst). Less dispel (copying (eg Mirage Master) / stealing effects are more interesting)


The Non-problem RNG:

On a related note, RNG is frequently cited as an issue, but honestly most of time I’m okay with the levels in Duelyst. Sure Meltdown was bullshit but its nerfed now so whatever. Personally I’m fine with Blue Conjurer (contra Scarzig) and the only change I’d make to 9 moons is to make it copy (not steal) a minion from the opponents deck.

To be clear, I’m not really a fan of RNG but I accept that it is part of CCG’s and I don’t think the game has reached unhealthy levels as of yet.


Problem 2) Content Creation

Okay, so it can be argued I have a vested interest in saying this but heres the problem as I see it; if you are a content creator for Duelyst its really hard to make any sort of cash doing it. The moment people can make reasonable money the easier it is to produce more quality content. And frequent quality content can, I think, create positive feedback loops where basically everyone benefits.

To take Scarzig as an example, I’m pretty sure that guy would love to do Youtube full time – but starting out is tough. What happens for the community though if he does find a way to make it? Well, he’d have more cash and more time to spend on projects; so we’d see better videos (which is great for the rest of us) and he’d (presumably) have a blast doing it! win-fucking-win.

If we look at Twitch, the viewerbase just isn’t big enough to support full time streaming for most people that would like to give it a go; In HS Trump, Reynad and Kriparian could all stream at the same time and there would be enough viewers to go round for each of them. In Duelyst however, if Hsuku, Grinch and F8 were to all stream at the same time they would all probably end up sharing a ‘pot’ of about 100 viewers. And unfortunately, a viewerbase of 33 probably isn’t enough to sustain a streamer (full time).

Now sure, the twitch viewership is small at least in part because the game is small. But, arguably, the viewership is also small at least in part due to a lack of choice. In HS, there is at least one competent streamer doing what you want to watch (Arena, ladder (Legend, diamond), etc). What if you want to watch Arena but X streamer is too salty or irritating to you in some other way? Watch Arena streamer Y.

In Duelyst though, its rare for viewers to have much of a choice. As I type this sentence Quasipro is streaming (fyi, I’d recommend him if you haven’t checked him out before) ranked. But what If I wanted to watch Rift mode? There is literally nobody for me to watch (right now). And so, due to a lack of choice, Duelyst have one less viewer at this point in time.

To be fair to CP, I think they are aware of the value of content creators which is why they had streamer league and so on. But for the rest of you reading this, just consider the value content producers can provide to a game and understand what supporting them can really mean (both for them as individuals, and for the game itself).

On final related note; I’d fucking LOVE to see someone like Lifecoach give Duelyst a spin. I mean that guy is so fucking obsessively analytical he’d probably be the absolute best guy to showcase the depths of this game. If he were to try (and like) the game he’d probably change to competitive scene by himself.

Anyway, I think thats enough rambling. Peace out.


#68

Exams and Vacations ?


#69

I’ve barely played this month, don’t have much of a reason to. Ive been diamond for like 6 months, theres no reward for pusbing past that so I usually don’t bother. I have all the cards for both of my factions and over 90% of the neutrals barring the unviable legendaries. Plus they nerfed my favorite cards thus killing my favorite playstyle with the only justification being “we gonna eventually put cards to fix this” Like raising the price of something so you can put it on sale.

Leaving me to ask “why nerf it now” since you haven’t even announced a new expansion and we haven’t received a mid month update I get the pleasure of going two full months without being able to play the deck I love (which was already a non meta, fringe deck) and hope that the next expansion, that I will likely have to pay money for since CP forgot that crafting was a big draw to to this game and a nice way to make the cards you like without wasting extra resources on things you don’t need.

Whats more was that we were all promised a mobile release by the first quarter of 2017. It is nearing the end of the second quarter and all we have is a closed beta for a ios thay only a fraction of the players can play since not everyone has Iphones.

Basicly I feel cheated, unmotivated to play, and unfufilled by the game. I’m almost certain I’m not the only one. The way I see it CP needs to get that new expansion out asap and open up the mobile release before more of us quit. As it stands you guys already lost the chance to get all of my friends into it. They all wanted to wait for the mobile release but since its late they all just started playing harthstone.

So you know thanks for that too.


#70

I stopped playing the month after Ancient Bonds released. To me, the biggest problem of all the expansions is that none of the new mechanics felt significant. Instead, we just picked out the strongest cards.

In Shimzar, we got battle pets, of which only three really saw any significant play. (ooz, slo, pax) Of the six 8-mana legendary spells, only obliterate was competitive. The game was still based on putting the best minions into your deck (Kron, Katara, Falcius) and spells (thumpening wave). Katara and Falcius seemed to be designed for Kaleos/Sajj, which were and still are weaker generals, but they were good enough for Reva/Zirix, or really any general for that matter.

In RotBB, CPG introduced the new Blood Surge mechanic . HS players recognized the similarity to Inspire, which made it not feel new. Furthermore, none of the blood surge minions saw play based on the blood surge mechanic. Like Kron, which was supposed to only support ‘replace decks’, the blood surge minions that saw play were basically just standalone good minions.

The same problem exists in the latest expansion. The Bond keyword does not feel like a new mechanic. It is basically a conditional opening gambit most of the time. The bond mechanic also exacerbates the most annoying play style in duelist which is to play a minion far away and hope it doesn’t get removed. And again, the best minions made their way into decks because they were the best minions at that mana. Lavaslasher and circulus so good that they fit into every magmar/vanar deck even if you aren’t playing golemn or arcanysts.

I think lurking fear/blood echoes are well designed cards because they promoted a new deck archetype that was really minion centric and strategic. I also like skywing for this reason. Flying is kind of annoying since the best play is to often play the in the back and wait, but at least they don’t generate infinite value like decimus or blue conjurer.


#71

Nobody “promised” a mobile release. It was their plan to release it end of first quarter but didn’t manage to do it. Duelyst is not the first project which is delayed and won’t be the last.
While I understand your points I don’t like the wording on this one because it makes it sound like we got cheated and that is not true.

I prefer a bug free mobile release to a rushed bugged mess. CPG wants to release the mobile version as fast as we players but if they need more time to get a stabile version they should take this time because a bugged release would be not good at all.


#72

I could probably write you a list of players from my friendslist who quit that includes more players then the current daily average of players :stuck_out_tongue:


#73

And that’s something we all can respect I think. That being said, the reality is that for every week that mobile is delayed the game moves further into obscurity.

If games like Gwent release their mobile products on to the market faster that Duelyst, then frankly, like the largely irrelevant Steam release, mobile simply won’t matter.


#74

As it stands fucking smite is about to beat CP to the punch. I know their a small studio and programming is very time consuming but if they have time for all this other shit, then they can focus up and speed along the mobile release.


#75

Okay, just a quick commentary on this. Programming is hard. They are a small team. Building a game ostensibly twice for Mobil takes a lot of time. Making new content for the existing game doesn’t take much time because it’s basically just adding some art and a short script for the minion.
Also last I checked, CPG has a larger design and art team than a programming one? So, give them a break and maybe learn a bit of code before demanding something.


#76

I’m not demanding anything, I want a game that is as fun as it was last month, I want the mobile release so I can play when I’m oit and about. I would have loved to play with my friends, get them to invest in this game, but CP failed to meet their estimations and lost out on current and potential players. I don’t like that they changed the basis of card crafting to facilitate more profit and I urge that the fix issues before the game ends up dead. Duelyst is still one of my favorite games, I would hate to see it fade away.


#77

And “programming” is just a generic denomination.
Like “playing instrument” :slight_smile:

" Oh, you’re playing Mozart on piano for 10 years ? Grab that guitar and let me hear some Django Reinhardt ! Come on, I know you’re playing instrument. "

This thread is more and more … surreal :dizzy_face:


#78

Its more accurate to say time consuming, as I did, but people love to rally against anyone who brings up negetive points without realising that negative criticism exists as an effort to bring flaws to the attention of the developer.


#79

Sorry but I call bullshit on that, there is no effort here, just people whining.

Effort is something you can see when a player tries to bring something to the table to make the game better, for instance by creating Tournaments, making amazing ools, building a FAQ for newbies, or compiling issues on a particular topic (yeah, self-promotion, shame on me).

These are genuine efforts that help the Community and devs.
In this thread, can’t see any solution. Most people are just wanking at numbers and complaining on how the game is dying, players leaving, devs slacking … I doubt it helps in any way. Of course everybody is free to voice is concern, but calling it helpful is a vast lie.


#80

Its fun to see how a “population its low” thread its one of the hot topic of the forum.