Duelyst Forums

Small Sets Are Not Trustworthy Anymore

#1

(last thread locked without reasoning, ill just answer here once)
What I wanted to say is small sets are extremely risky and unreliable buy now. After what we seen. We don’t know anymore, if any or all strong cards in small set will be considered unbalanced and removed (read: made utterly unplayable) without any compensation. And those were the cards you most likely loved the most (people tend to love strong cards and not weak), maybe even bought entire set because of them. And then you won’t even be able to disenchant them, neither full value or normal value. So if you bought small set for having couple strong cards - it is likely that u just wasted all the gold (or $) on nothing, 40 days of farm. When company offers some unrefundable thing shouldn’t it have some guaranteed value?..

Closed thread had nothing but irony btw and if devs don’t like ironic criticism and lock topics like these, is any criticism allowed on their forums? or just love words from pure fans? Idk guys

#2

Why are you entitled to reimbursement when said small sets are massively underpriced by industry standards?

4 Likes
#3

Stop it 15characters

#4

Why do you prefer a game with powercreeps?

And i still don’t see an argument of any sort here
"Small set are unreliable IMO"
-The end

:slight_smile:

#5

Which nerfed card is now unplayable? Enfeeble, Meltdown, Variax, Gaze, still gets played. I’ve not seen Nosh yet, but it still seems viable.

If you see an utterly broken card like Enfeeble warping the meta, expect it to be nerfed. Meltdown being a finisher for every general suppresses faction identity.

The overall health of the meta is way more important than coming up with some compensation mechanic for sets that were pretty cheap anyway, and that you knew up front could not be disenchanted. You paid for 39 playable cards, you still have 39 playable cards.

2 Likes
#6

A rant is a rant, Ryv made no mistake locking that thread. Discussion is welcome.

2 Likes
#7

I disagree with OP.

1 Like
#8

Guys, be nice.

The previous post @baubledawdle made totally deserves the hate, no doubt about that. Ryvirath’s verdict is clear and reasonable: ranting threads that don’t promote discussion is not allowed in this forum. In that thread, the attitude and the way he articulated himself (pretty cocky TBO) was problematic, so he got what he deserves: that thread got locked in no time.

But we must also acknowledge that he has a point. The nerfs are really discouraging to some of the players. In fact, the frequent card changes during the alpha- and early-beta days was a major issue why players abandoned this game.

Now the OP makes a new post and tries to properly discuss this issue. But are you guys giving proper responses? Are you sure your opposition is not an ad-hominem? If you guys despise rants, hate and unthoughtful comments so much, then why would you perpetuate it by responding with stuff like “I disagree”(without any reason given) and “stop talking”?

Are you guys in this thread, especially the long-time forum goers, being welcome to discussions? If you’re a ‘veteran’ forum user, then please kindly behave like it. Some of your replies in this thread is nothing different from the OP’s recently locked thread.

Even if I disagree with what the OP says, I have to stand up for him, because the others of you are being too unwelcoming.

8 Likes
#9

I have no sympathy for this guy, literally all of his posts are like this. Incredibly petty and incredibly agressive towards cpg, he is allowed to do this, but it doesn’t mean the community has to like it or welcome it.

It doesn’t matter though @Ryvirath is gonna lock it asap :sunglasses:

He may have a point that they should’ve given out something or other. But honestly the best compensation you can give is a better game. :relieved:

3 Likes
#10

Who are being petty or aggressive in this thread, him or everyone else who didn’t like him? I would understand if he was being unreasonable again in this thread, but the fact is that he isn’t. He is trying to discuss properly.

I don’t think my reminder would have any impact. May @Ryvirath intervene in the right time.

5 Likes
#11

judging someone based on past actions is not petty. And the majority of the replies are talking about the subject (except ours i guess) they’re just talking about why they disagree with what hes saying.

#12

I totally understand the OP’s concerns here. I mean devs will make totally broken and op cards disregarding the game’s balance in order to entice players to buy those mini expac. And then after a few months they will nerf them to obscurity w/o any compensation. Some players buy those xpac until they get the cards they want and stop after that. Most don’t buy them to get the full collection. And then nerfing them w/o compensation even though players spend gold or real money on them. Don’t get me wrong I like nerfing op cards to make the game more balance, what I don’t like is devs making obvious broken cards just to make quick cash.

Before the release of RotB, they release previews of the cards and I thought a few of them was really op. I remember when Enfeeble was previewed, I commented that it is really broken and should cost more. Also Variax, seeing it at the first time concerned me that it will be problematic to deal with. And then bam, they got the nerf axe.

I understand the OP because now I kind of doubting the devs in their game decisions and intentions.

Dev1: Here are the new cards for the mini xpac.

Dev2: Dude that won’t work. It is too balance. Players won’t buy them bro.

Dev3: Yo, we make an obvious totally broken cards. Since they can’t craft it they will have to buy and buy more until they got the cards they want. You know what I’m saying dawg.

Dev1: But it will ruin the game’s balance.

Dev3: Yo, don’t worry we will just nerfed them down. Since players won’t be compensated, they will get nothing for spending all those golds but for some useless cards they won’t ever use. You know what I’m saying dawg.

Dev2: Dude that’s so radical.

2 Likes
#13

I lol’d
(Not because you don’t have a point, I agree with you, but it was funny)

#14

That is actually right,

Let’s see what cards have been nerfed:

Enfeeble, nosh rak and meltdown
Now, that’s far from the entire expansion.

There is actually no refund on this kind of expansion because of the buying model,
you can’t disenchant those cards and at the same time you get 3x of a non owned card

Now, what type of refund can be avaiable on this kind of model?
I have no idea, i’m sorry if OP thinks all his time has been wasted on an expansion he thinks not worty.

I’m pretty happy with the card changes.
Please @baubledawdle can you pinpoint what cards made you open this thread.
In this way we can be more accurate in our answer.

As it is now i’m pretty happy with this model. I like the way you can have all the exp in one month/40 days of gold grinding, i enjoy playing this game and i don’t really mind the fact i can’t craft those cards.

2 Likes
#15

You’re humanitarian services are noted and appreciated but please contribute to the topic at hand before you feel the need to start white knighting.

5 Likes
#16

It doesn’t seem impossible to refund players even when cards which cannot be disenchanted are nerfed. For instance, CPG could still provide some gold or spirit, I think that would have been appreciated.

Nevertheless, the sets are still fun, unique and not really affected in a major way by nerfs, so I think that none can actually feel cheated. Let’s hope that no more egregiously broken cards will be printed in the future.

2 Likes
#17

While I respect CPG’s decision of not refunding, I disagree that refunds are impossible. Look, each Rise or AB pack costs 300 and comes with 3 full sets of cards, right? So each set of 3 copies of a card costs 100 (as in this model rarity does not matter).

Now, assuming they don’t create 1 card (3 copies) “mini-packs” cisting 100 Gold, DEing Rise or AB cards for gold makes no sense. However, they could give, lets say, 50 Gold per card changed while letting the player keep the card.

Since changes to cards are becomimg more sparse as CPG takes a more careful approach, and 50 Gold per card changed results in two Core Set packs at most, it is unlikely to upset the economy, and still serves as a compensation of sorts.

The biggest problem is that some people may find it unfair that others get “free” gold, but I don’t see that as a big problem, and CPG was willimg to give “free” prismatics to players who came before the introduction of prismatic cards

PS: people, please don’t be so hateful. The OP has a much more civilized tone now, and you should strive to do the same and answer to this post based on its merits or lack of them, not on the older post.

PSS: despite the contents in my post, I am neutral towards the idea of refunds, believe that nerfs should happen, and disagree completely with the idea that expansions should always have a higher power level than all that came before.

1 Like
#18

Personally, I can’t think of any reasonable form of refunding that would suit nerfing theses smaller expansions. For starters, you are guaranteed 9 cards, or 3 copies of 3 cards (common, rare, and either an epic or legendary), which is meant to help players access the full set quicker/easier). Since you cannot craft or disenchant (excluding prismatic versions, although I don’t know if they are refundable), the card don’t hold any dust value. It would seem odd to give players dust for a card they couldn’t craft in the first place.

Now let’s say they were willing to provide dust. A total of 3 cards (off the top of my head) from both rise of the bloodborne (2 legendaries, 1 epic). If they have you dust, that would be free 6450 dust. Also consider that not all players have gotten all of the cards from these smaller sets, which would put them at a serious disadvantage compared to those with the full set our those lucky enough to have already unlocked the nerfed cards.

Finally, only 3 cards (2 from factions, 1 neutral) were nerfed from smaller sets. There is still about +100 cards that were made in both sets that weren’t nerfed that are still strong and staples for archetypes, such as punish, frozen corona, Circulus, bangle, lavaslasher, rage binder, trinity wing, trinity oath, cryptographer, etc. Even though gaze and variax were nerfed, they still see play in there own archetypes (variax more than gaze imo). The same will be true for these cards. Nosh rak will still be a strong finisher in some Vetruvian lists (notably zoo), and enfeeble will still be used in some control Faie lists to deal with large minions (especially in Magmar heavy metas).

1 Like
#19

Small sets are the most trustworthy even at this point in time. Nerfs happen and cards from the smaller sets are not excluded from that. Yes, there is no “refund” or spirit value compensation because the cards have no spirit value (except for prismatic version which refund for full when nerfed). Which means once you got all those cards from the smaller sets, those cards are no longer worth anything. Unlike the core set/Shim’zar where cards can be disenchanted and the spirit used to create other cards. Meaning that those cards will always have some value to them. Meaning a nerf to a card in those, means that if you want to, you can disenchant those cards for something else of equal value which you are not certain to get by opening orbs. Whereas, smaller sets you are always certain to get every card by a certain number of orbs. Which means you can’t gain anything more from them.

#20

And some of use got more than others.:sweat_smile:
I don’t remember anyone being upset or openly jealous about that situation. But, that was when spirit was a more desired currency because of the new emotes, avatars, skins, etc.

I remember a few of us being bent out of shape over the mystery crates and lack of keys.:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

To the OP:

CP has taken steps in the past to give a little bit back to the players, and maybe something will come out of this current backlash. It is absolutely impossible to please everyone, so I certainly wish them well.

It would be pointless for me to sit here and tell everyone they are wrong and then try to convince them to continue playing so that the game will retain a larger playerbase and survive, just so I can keep playing. This is no different than friends growing apart in real life. You shouldn’t continue to put energy into a relationship with someone you believe is taking advantage of you. If you do, that’s your choice and nothing anyone screams at you will make any difference until you decide to change.

Ultimately, it comes down to this: play the game, or don’t. It’s your choice.

6 Likes