After a second read, it seems we agree; I only mentioned Kaleos and Reva because that is the most obvious one that I feel no one who’s played this game can really disagree with.
Scioness Sajj and her State in the Meta
Yes, we definitely agree, I just figured I’d point out that Kaleos isnt the only general that suffers from this. In fact every faction has this problem except for abyssian, but thats because both lilithe’s and cassyva’s BBS already had a lot of support behind them.
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I believe, there are two main ways to upgrade Saji (without specific suggestions):
1)Get some heals.
2)Get some more artifact durability. Really, regalia should have been vetruvian card.
Also, in the original post there is
and no Kaleos in the list)
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There’s alot to unpack about your idea here, but I still think it follows from my early assessment that the devs seemed to have dropped the ball when it comes to identifying Sajj’s identity, kind of like they had with Kara, specifically, since her effect is so… basic, whereas Kaleos had a fairly unique effect from day 1, but just needed some way to channel it into something good (“if you judge a fish by it’s ability to climb a tree…”).
I’d like to say that I don’t think healing is enough to make her worth playing, from a competitive, or even fun, position; I think they need to give a player some reason to want an artifact on someone with her BBS, as opposed to just equipping it on Zirix who has the added bonus of gaining board. Now, how they ultimately do this is what matters.
Thus far, I believe they have made some notable headway, specifically, with Falcius, Zephyr (although people keep sh1tting on this guy, for some reason…), and Wildfire Ankh, to name a few. The mentioned 3 are tools to help her deal with developed/developing boards while still gaining board and taking less damage than having to attack enemy minions without them.
If I were to suggest something to the devs, at this point… Perhaps an artifact that gives +1 attack and both fixes the other equipped artifacts and heals the general once it breaks. Maybe an artifact (or minion) that draws an artifact from your library with mana cost equal to damage dealt by general or just draws any artifact but then discounts the cost proportional to general damage dealt, specifically making it better suited for Sajj instead of Zirix, since he can’t deal as much damage at once, while Sajj’s BBS allows her to take them down in one fell swoop. Those are just suggestions I thought of while riding the tube, so don’t read too much into them.
EDIT: After some more consideration, that second item reducing artifact costs would eve open design space for much more powerful artifacts that have large costs, just because they would still be playable but only if you could cost reduce them.
Unearthed prophecies has made Duelyst a game with 6 playable factions and 11 playable generals. This is no small feat, since it is exceedingly difficult to balance so many characters. However, our little Sajj is still left in the dust, despite being a fan favourite in terms of design and lore. Sajj, along with Argeon, Zirix, and maybe Cassyva, is among the most developed playable characters in Duelyst, yet she is barely playable.
Here are some of my suggestions to buff Sajj support cards:
Psionic Strike
1 mana
Your general deals double damage to minions until the start of your next turn
Explanation
Just a minor upgrade that makes trading into Sajj during your own turn more risky as well. Just a way to make Sajj’s base BBS with no support just a little better.
Zephyr:
3 mana
3/4
Bloodsurge: Your general gains Frenzy until their next attack
Explanation
This makes this card much sturdier and the effect much less situational. Instead of hoping for your opponent to crowd their units around you, you can save your frenzy until there is a good opportunity to use it.
Incenera:
4 mana
4/5
Whenever your general destroys a minion, they gain +1 base movement.
Explanation
Sajj has arguably the most situational bloodbound spell and attached condition out of all the generals. Having to destroy a minion to gain a benefit is really difficult to do, especially considering that most minions need to be dealt with more than once or are best played out of range. Uniquely, the “whenever your general destroy’s something” condition is controlled by your opponent playing things, not your actions. As such, I feel that Sajj’s conditional effects should be slightly more powerful due to how conditional they are. This change makes Incenera have a hugely powerful permanent effect that helps Sajj chase down foes.
Imperial Machinist
3 mana
2/5
Provoke, Opening Gambit: Repair all of your artifacts
Explanation
A nice, simply buff that lets Sajj ease off the aggression in the early game.
Osirix
7 mana
8/6
Flying, Opening Gambit: Your general gains the effects of all friendly artifacts broken this game.
Explanation
Oserix seems like it was designed to give you a huge tempo boost in the lategame by fetching up some artifacts. However, if you are already running an artifact deck, you might over-equip your general and waste some of them. Furthermore, at that point in the game, your general is probably too low on health to take advantage of the artifacts. This version of Oserix works sort of like Alabaster Titan or Sirocco, in that it encourages an inefficient deck (full of artifacts) in exchange for an explosive lategame payoff.
Giving some of the artifacts more attack seems like it could go a long way in improving them, as well as power up Autarch’s gifts.
Spinecleaver
5 mana,
+2 attack, whenever your general destroys a minion, summon a bloodfire totem.
Explanation
Just a minor upgrade to justify the 5 cost and minor use.
Thunderclap
4 mana
+1 attack, whenever your general deals damage, also deal damage to joined enemies.
Explanation
Thunderhorn, Thunderclap. It seems simple enough to stick Thunderhorn’s ability on an artifact. This also gives Sajj some Boardclear potential. Finally, things like Frenzy and probably blast stacks with Thunderhorns ability, triggering it for every damaged enemy, so a combo Sajj could be possible if she had a Thunderhorn artifact.
Fountain of Youth
5 mana
Restore 5 health to your general. Switch your hand with the hand you were dealt at the beginning of the game.
Explanation
Fountain of youth has got to be one of the worst cards in the game. It’s often strictly worse than inner oasis and belongs to a faction with no healing synergy. This proposed change might make the card a bit too powerful, but it has several downsides in bad opening hands, and not letting the player dig deeper in their deck. Furthermore, the player must sacrifice their current hand.
Sand Sister Saon
4 mana
3/4
Whenever your general deals damage, restore that much health to your general.
Explanation
Sajj might be good at trading health for value, but she has no way to heal reliably. Aymara healer is more of a threat than a reliable heal, and the 2 drop healers are not nearly enough to stem the constant abuse on top of needing to trade with the general.
I know that these buffs will probably not happen, but hey; they buffed diamond golem, and these might give an idea of what future Sajj support cards could look like.
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Good post - think you’ve pretty much identified all the key issues with Saji. Only thing I’d disagree with is describing her as trash tier. Her artifact archetypes may be too inconsistent, but I’ve been playing an Obelysk/Exhuming sand deck where she’s worked better than Zirix. Basically being able to kill off a key minions on turn 3 or 4 has been more helpful than summoning yet another Dervish.
This would be perfect.
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TBH, I don’t know why everyone is calling her trash tier. She’s fairly solid in an Exhuming Sands deck. Oblivion Sickle lets her set up board states that are equivalent and sometimes better than Zirix’s dervish generation. You strap on an Ankh and it can get really funny from there.
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In my own opinion, I might not consider Sajj trash tier, but I’d say she often gets extremely close to it. Its worth noting that Sajj’s problems don’t only come from her support not helping her enogh or feeling clunky, but rather some other cards commonly used in the meta. In the meta we’re in right now Vanar is one of the strongest factions(Probably THE strongest faction). A commonly run card in vanar is Frigid Corona. This card shuts down Sajj’s strategies so hard it isnt funny. Getting stunned means you suddenly can’t really use any of your artifacts, can’t use your BBS, just about can’t use anything that you’d have in the deck when sajj can’t move or attack. Another example is Grandmaster Zendo, Songhai also happens to be a very powerful faction right now. And somewhat common on the ladder as well. Grandmaster Zendo shuts down Sajj even harder as now you just got stunned and took damage or moved in the wrong direction, away from the action thanks to Zendo. The effect even persists if Zendo isnt dealt with. With these two cards, both being commonly used all around amazing cards, Sajj will need some quite frankly outstanding support to be able to get out of the horrible spot she is in now. So in my opinion, unless both of these factions become less used and not as powerful as they are now, or the Frigid Corona and Grandmaster Zendo get nerfed to the point where they aren’t commonly used in most lists anymore, Sajj might be kept out of the meta just because of the existence of these cards.
So basically, assuming Zendo and Corona won’t be getting nerfs anytime soon as we know that the devs dont like changing cards too much, especially so, considering both cards are quite important to to Vanar and Songhai. This means that in order for Sajj to be good and ladder-competitive, two other factions will have to fall to a somewhat similar state, which isn’t a real solution to the problem as it creates even MORE problems to rise in terms of balancing.(Not to mention, it is quite near impossible at this point for Songhai and Vanar to become factions that aren’t very strong without a big mega-nerf balance patch. I can’t remember the last time when Reva wasn’t clinging on to some top spot in the meta, and Vanar has been top tier for quite a while now thanks to some of their cards)
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So, I think this is all very silly. We’re sinking our teeth into a new set…
Sajj is a reactive General, the meta is molten, if you’re having a hard time Sajj-ing, it’s probably because your deck doesn’t shut down the right kinds of combos- and therefore fails as a control deck. I’m dubious, at the very least about Sajj’s position, because Vetruvian is more… I don’t know. Functional? I don’t feel like playing Vet is playing at the same kind of disadvantage it has been for well over a year. Exhuming Sands function with every Vet archetype, the new counters are hardcore.
So, yeah. I like the state of Vet and Sajj, I think changes made to the game currently are better off gauging the proper amounts of burst damage done by certain types of combos and whether certain types of interactions should occur (card scope/specificity.) Sajj just does what she’s always done… be very good at killing minions and the game has sped up to a point where that’s a good advantage to leverage, say over a token minion, or some sort of buff. Sajj isn’t bad Cassyva anymore- I think that’s a sign of the game moving in the right direction.
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Sajj is hands down the weakest general right now and will probably remain so in the future unless she recieves signifigant artifact support (i.e. ways to protect her artifacts like Regalia does or ways to discount her artifacts). However should such support be given to Sajj it would get abused by OTK Sajj much more than it would be by control Sajj, which is undesirable for obvious reasons.
All Slow artifact decks will never be viable because EMP exists, which unfortunately makes artifact Lyonar and control/Spinecleaver Sajj unplayble.
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One card’s existence cannot ever negate a playstyle.
It can make it harder, sure, but not every deck (nowhere near every deck) runs EMP.
The Sickle helps Sajj (cheap to equip to use with the Tears and free minions when plonking down Falcius and Zephyr), and I run it currently in a Sajj deck and I’m not disappointed.
That said, it’s obviously not for every Sajj deck.
Control Sajj should fit, as free minions really help control the board.
The thing is that to really make Sajj stronger you have to make her BBS stronger, as that’s the only thing except looks that defines her.
Falcius and Zephyr are good examples, they needn’t be artifacts.
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EMP is a 7 mana card and a double edged sword since it’s effecting both players. Unless Sajj gets October Reva levels of dominance it will never see enough play to make something unviable. Hell even if it was played in every deck it wouldn’t make a control Artifact deck unviable because it’s effect can easily be limited by thoughtful play.
I honestly think that Sajj is the only general that needs a rework. I mean removing minions with your general should be the last option you think about, since you loose when your general dies. Her BBS is too depending on things like Falcius or blindscorch.
I suggest a change like: Minions won’t counterattack your general this turn. It protects artifacts and it’s more flexible in usage. In addition there should be more spells that buff your generals for one attack (for Vetruvian obviously). Just a raw idea of course
Honestly, I think that the BBS of Sajj is strong. It allows her to remove minions from the board in exchange of her health and Falcius + BBS is 8 damage without taking damage back, which is very powerful.
To me, the main problem of Sajj is that there is no good way to regain the health she traded when removing a minion. Healing spells or damage reduction effects for Vetruvians would help in this respect.
Other than that, the two suggestions in the original post are very good. More synergy with the BBS and more low-cost artifacts would definitely help developing a control build, which is where you really want to use Sajj. Zephir is an awesome card for Sajj, but he dies to easily: giving him 4 health would help, as suggested in another post.
@Aeruniel and @baharoth,
EMP is indeed rarely used at the moment, but that is easily explained by the fact that everybody is trying to have fun with the cards that UP brought. Once the meta settles down it will be a 2 or 3 of in most decks just like during the previous meta when even Vaath and Zir’an ran it at S-Rank/Diamond.
It is possible to make Sajj better, but it will be very hard to make her viable without making her broken. The best solution would probably be to buff her BBS so it is no longer a poor man’s Overload.
Guess we are playing different games. Even in the prime of the Arcanyst meta i haven’t seen many EMPs and the few i saw were in Golem Decks. Certainly not in Vaath/Zir’an. This card is far too situational to ever become “Meta”. It’s a tech card by nature.
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Ooooh… gimme dat emp
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And now? Do you want me to post screenshots of the last 10 Zir’ans i’ve faced who didn’t play an EMP? I mean i have to congratulate you on finding that one guy who actually plays this card in a Zir’an deck but imo this isn’t really a prove. Anyway, i can’t really prove the opposite either so unless CPG decides to release some statistics on that neither of us will ever know if he was right or wrong.
Statistics aside, i think you will have to agree that playing EMP in a Vaath/Zir’an deck is very detrimetal to it’s game plan and therefor not a good choice. And that’s the case with many current top decks. Arcanyst will never play this card. Obelysk Zirix will never play it. Most Songhai decks won’t (some midrange builds might but that’s not exactly the meta build). Abyssian probably won’t use him either, they have better choices for their 7 mana slot.
It’s certainly possible that we will get a meta at some point in time where this card actually sees a lot of play, but i highly doubt it.
As someone already said the problem is That sajj has no mininios That truly support her bar zephyr/incinera/Imperial meccanism. And all this minions are situationally good but not as much as they should. Combine that with the lack of healing and you have a very weak general.
So for me:
- makes minions that are built for sajj stronger.
2)print healing cards for vetruvian
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