She stands as a lackluster 4 drop in comparison to other sisters, I’d certainly rather have 3 falcius in my deck if given the choice.
What i’m suggesting is giving Sand Sister Saon an effect similar to arclyte regalia, let it give your general +1 Attack and “The first time your general takes damage each turn, prevent 1 of it.”
This would make the Sister synergize better with the faction kit as well as the ‘up close and personal’ idiom that the game designers attributed to the faction when nerfing syphon energy and entropic decay. Vetruvian could do with a boost and this would in my opinion help considerably.
Seems reasonable, kaleino is not getting nerfed while she should probably be.
prevent 1 damage does nothing. It doesn’t let you clear ninions free whichout damaging artifacts. Basically heals 1 damage ech turn, hardly noticeable compared to other faction heals this could make her playable even if her stats are reduced for it.
TBH, Saon is actually a very strong card- it simply stands that Vet is unable to utilize the support it provides simply because there aren’t any spells or triggers that scale with General ATK. Having 3 ATK on a General is very strong, however.
Some Vet cards need a buff, but buffing Saon would probably border on breaking Vet.
Lyonar can buff their hero unlimited amount of times on heal, and they have many heals and can just sustain after attacking, not to mention regalia.
Sister saon is just plain weaker card in faction that doesn’t have as strong minions or heals to support going face too much.
Sister kaleino already heals 2-3 hp on average on your turn and opponent turn so like 6 hp per playable turn and for some reason she is considered ok(not nerfed). Comparing to that 2 heal over yours and opponent turns if both you and him fight with your general is not much.
Her stats doesn’t matter much, could be nerfed if it really considered to much for the cost.
Faction cards don’t need to be equalized in power. Each faction does certain things better than other factions, that’s game design 101.
What I think you and @harrygateaux are missing, is that this suggested change isn’t one that plays out the same in every Vetruvian archetype, much like Regalia. The suggested change only makes sense when looking at the card from the perspective of playing Sajj, which as a general is under supported. But the damage buffer effect is exceptional for forcing aggressive races, which means that Zirix would get far more mileage out of the proposed Sand Sister, and push damage, board domination, and board development that much harder- departments where Zirix is simply in no need of help.
Any change short of a “Sajj only” effect pushes Saon into remarkably dangerous territory.
First of all, Sajj’s bloodborn spell is exactly what you said vetruvian don’t have in your first post, and it very much scales with attack damage, despite this it isn’t used.
Secondly, these are legendary cards we are talking about and are meant to be powerful, not even Sajj who can make use of the bonus damage with her bbs uses it. You haven’t done anything in these two sentences but state the obvious in such a way as to make out like you’re an authority on the subject at hand.
This might be a fair point if zirix had unlimited space in his deck for all the cards he wanted, unfortunately saon is a 4 mana drop, and as board development/push damage go, zirix would fair much better with a allomancer on the board than +1 attack and 1 damage mitigation.
I’m not saying zirix wouldn’t use her, but his deck is already crammed with cards he needs for obelysk synergy, would soan with 1 damage mitigation per round really be worth sacrificing allomancer or anything else important for? And if he did, you can gaurentee his obelysk game is going to hurt because of it.
My suggestion would do little but give both generals more card options for players to choose and craft decks from, they just need to be good enough to use. You talk about archetypes as if they represent the only ways a faction are played, by the ‘zirix’ archetype i presume you’re referring to obelysk decks, which as i said can’t afford to sacrifice obelysk synergy cards without woe. Any general can be played any way a person wants as long as viable options are there to do so.
The sisters are supposed to be show ponies for their respective factions, much like the grandmasters (they even have a special avenue for obtainment) and saon in her current form is poor to unusable for both generals, not because +1 damage isn’t good, but because it isn’t good for a 4 mana drop from a minion you now have to try keep alive to reap the effect of. All of this unlike 3 drop falcius who is now completely free to be useful right after the general has reaped the rewards.
Whether zirix needs help in any particular department is irrelevant to making saon a viable card.
As someone who’s tried to use Saon, her biggest use is getting over the threshold for BBS damage vs. common Provokes - the 3/6 Primus Shieldmaster, 3/5 Silvergaurd, 6/6 Klaxon, and other meaty threats at the 5-6 range. Being costed at 4 mana, she’s at roughly the right mana cost to cast and BBS immediately to handle these threats as they’re put down.
The problem is, Falcius is just better because of damage immunity, coming out a turn earlier, and having an extra point of damage, allowing Sajj to slap off up to 8 health from a chunky minion.
Saon giving some kind of damage reduction would be a godsend, especially against swarms of 1/1s that could ruin her precious artifacts. I’m all for it.
I believe it was excogitator that suggest it. I don’t rmb exactly the details and all but he said why not help equip am artifact for Sajj. Time shroud was the name I believe. I rmb my own spin for it was being able to restore the amount of health you received if you destroy minion.
And I believe the Sajj’s bbs should have damage reduction by itself by reducing half the damage taken. It’s impractical to face tank everything with her bbs. And with the ultra aggressive meta it’s worse cause it just means you’ll die faster. No heals, no reduction and reliable aoe for swarm, sajj is just sad atm.
Well, actually, just having “prevent 1 damage” is an enormous advantage with one card : Hexblade.
With Hexblade + Sajj power, you OS 10 health minion (hello Ironcliff), and take 1 damage. Which mean the smallest effect of ForceField prevent you to take damage.
But if I were to talk about Saon… dunno. She is in the same spot as Dioltas, Entropic Decay, Prismu shield. It’s hard now to have better 4 mana cards.
I guess her 4 Life point make her too easy to destroy.
Yes, the suggestion was made partially with hexblade in mind, but i figured it was so obvious that it didn’t require statement. It is not however the enormous advantage you claim it to be. It would prevent the degradation of durability ONLY on your turn. Hexblade needs to strike first in order to apply its effect, meaning that on the enemy’s turn your ‘hello ironcliff,’ perhaps buffed with divine bond is going to apply almost full damage prior to having its damage reduced. At this juncture the damage mitigation effect is over and two more attacks of any sort and the artifact is destroyed. So i don’t really think Sajj needing 2 cards (saon/hexblade) plus bbs to take out one ironcliff is an enormous advantage, especially when chances are that hexblade is destroyed next turn.
without mentionning that keeping Saon alive one full turn to go for the Hexblade combo will happen 0% of the game… not kidding guys other classes have ranged removal… Get it?
While I think this is a great spin to Saon. I don’t think Vetruvian needs to be focusing on this card atm. there’s so much more pressing matter to deal with. Sajj maybe terribad, but heck, even Zirix is into oblivion atm. The whole faction sucks ass.
[quote=“harrygateaux, post:14, topic:6968, full:true”]So i don’t really think Sajj needing 2 cards (saon/hexblade) plus bbs to take out one ironcliff is an enormous advantage
Hum, just the Hexblade (2+3) and bbs give you 10. No need for Saon. I actually took out two Ironcliff like that in the same game several times. (Lyonnar doesn’t really rush things and I use Dioltas tomb)
The advantage for me is the durability that don’t go down.
That’s why Regalia is so much of a pain, isn’t it ? (ok, it block 2 damage, but if you strike with a 3 damage first there is no difference when you hit with general afterward).
To get back on Saon… well general buffing minion must stay on the board… like the 2/5 Kelaino.
I guess you don’t want that much to go fight with your general when you lack survival.
You need the saon to prevent durability loss in your ironcliff/hexblade equation, i thought that was obvious and apparent? You’ve cherry picked something i’ve said, taken it out of the context it was in, then re-interpreted it to make yourself sound like you’re telling me something new, it’s ridiculous. And i made the point very clearly that chances are it prevents durability loss ONLY on your turn. It’s as if you ignored everything that was said without even thinking about it and then started to re-mumble the same poorly thought out words from before as if they contained something completely new.
Several of the seven sisters could use a buff of some kind. It’s not that it’s a terrible card it’s that other sisters and lower costing cards are far and able better. And all the sisters should be fairly equal and they aren’t. Saon can’t be used without making huge concessions.