Saberspine tiger needs to go Nightwatcher isnt enough (Ranked matchmode viable)


#1

Just as the title says ya it needs to go i personally had preferred rush be removed from that minion its too splashable and i thought it would have gotten hit over shroud because you guys have released powerful buff spells and tiger is just disgusting just when you feel u have dominated the game boom tiger… it presents no interactions as seen with tusk boar thats why you made it 2-3… ok so make saberspine tiger a 2-2 or 2-1 but then tusk boar is a freaking legendary minion and tiger is pretty much next to legendary u got tusk boar and warbeast both legendary rush minions do you get the picture?? many will hate as they always have whenever i rant about tiger but it limits future design space i dont mind the rush mechanic from other factions it perfectly fine and if my memory serves me right only vanar and lyonar don’t have a rush mechanic so other factions having tiger as “removal/face damage” gives them more consistency to burst you down while slower controlling decks (lyonar) just sit and watch them dispel or bounce provoke and burst u with buffed tiger.

solution and suggestions

other than nerfing tiger to 2-2 or 2-1 (murloc), cost 4 with same stats or removing rush from it entirely (the dream)

i would like to suggest maybe giving us ability to have a maximum deck size of 50 (so control players can have more answers to a fast paced burst meta) for others they can still run 40 cards i as a main lyonar player almost 20 ribbons need more answers.

2
give us a match based best 2/3 rank mode that would involve 1 minute siding … ye i know “games are long as it is we don’t need that” i second that but at least it would provide a way to prove who is more skilled at a luck based game. having this mode is just for ppl like me who enjoy playing the game competitively.

So in closing this is not just a saberspine tiger rant. Implementing a ranked match mode will give us more options and feels more tactical. dont get confused. its sorta like hs wild and standard two separate ranks

so for ppl who just love burst all day they go play in singles ranked mode and for persons more tactical will go in match ranked mode however devs would have to design how match players progress maybe every match won grants regular 2 progression and a lost drops by 1. wins in a row goes up by 3 or 4

Reaching diamond is great and all each month but the monthlies doesnt impact the game as much as they ought to be

Hope you all like this post and constructive critiques only


#2

Kara just got nerfed to oblivion. She was the ONLY justifiable basis for trying to get tiger removed. And even there, CPG made the right choice to deal with her BBS and not the tiger (even if I think she was overnerfed and is now dull and expensive to use.)

The tiger is an important surprise element that is necessary in many build archetypes. There are no more 8/7 tigers, it is 3/2 or a bit higher with a buff combo, and if you are losing to that, you did a lot more in the game to lose that had nothing to do with the tiger.

The fact that it is a basic is essential, because it allows newer players to use it. We already have seen two generals go from budget-friendly to super-expensive in the last two months (Cassy and Kara). We don’t need even more movement away from a viable new player experience.

The tiger doesn’t need to go. The demands for the tiger to go, need to go.


#3

doesnt matter which faction present situation…turn 2… 2 drop… turn 3 ramp two two drops, turn 4 either ramp/dispel/removal is played followed by another two drop turn 5 kron that summons a 2 drop turn 6 if kron n two drop dies either summon other kron or start to hit with tiger or start refilling hand either l’kian or spelljammer or own faction draw mechanic. turn 7 onwards tiger buffs gg… maybe what they need to do or will do is make a vanar rush mechanic in order to remove tiger the fact of the matter is other faction gain more burst damage having tigers while they chip your life away vanar isnt seen rank 3 up just saij saij saij lol songhai and some magmar. as a lyonar player vanar before nerf was never an issue the point im putting across is other rush factions being able to use him at full potential


#4

Ok, lets make less answers for Heartseekers


#5

I respectfully disagree, I think it’s good that there is a neutral minion with rush. I would like to think there will be others down the line.


#6

I’m sorry, I am having a hard time understanding what you are saying. Maybe English isn’t your first language, so I am not trying to be rude, but I genuinely don’t get what you are trying to say.

From turn 7 onwards every faction has far greater out-of-hand burst potential than playing and buffing a tiger. Divine Bond, Songhai shenanigans, Obliterate, Wailing Overdrive, etc.

I honestly don’t understand what it is you are really complaining about, or why.


#7

it was just a scenario im well aware of burst damage from other factions tiger still can kill you by turn 6 ive just presented a scenario where two kron is played back to back… ye its not strong anymore but it still can chip away at your health even if its the 2-2 that does the damage and u removed kron itself. I think you are just commenting because tiger isn’t cancerous like meldhai and because it isn’t hated by 90 percent of the community you and many others would think it is fine as it is. like i said many will always hate my reasoning for rant about tigers this is just my post to devs that nightwatcher is just not meta defining as they think. trying to put to them a point here… tusk boar was 3-3 legendary that got nerfed to 2-3 warbeast is a legendary 6 mana 4-4 legendary and they gave us an epic 4 mana night watcher to stop what a common tiger? tiger should be a legendary aswell since all rush minions played competitvely are legendary thats my point. and yes im being sarcastic


#9

and for clarification when i said turn 7 onwards i meant at any point this stage it will finish u off simple as that. just as counterplay reasoning for nerf says “We make balance changes rarely and for a number of reasons. These changes are not based entirely on a card’s popularity, win rate, or lack thereof” just because it is not popular to you or the community does not mean it should not get it point made this is just from my experience it is just a disgusting card end of discussion :slight_smile:


#11

Oh trust me, I’ve tried.


#12

First of all, Magmar has non-legendary rush minions. Vetruvian has multiple options to generate rush minions, all of which are not legendary. Songhai can turn dozens of minions into rush using Inner Focus, which is a basic.

Turning the tiger into a legendary would be the worst possible thing, worse than even removing it from the game. You would still see it in tons of decks, but only in expensive ones that can be afforded by veterans or people who spend a lot of money. There would be huge imbalances at the lower ranks at the start of every month, with newbies getting slammed by these things and not being able to use them, leading to more people leaving the game in frustration.

Finally, how about Vetruvian? They just lost one of their key dispel mechanisms. You want to take away another one?


#13

facepalm thats why i said at the end i was being sarcastic…point is i was comparing it to say its just as good as a legendary. my solutions presented is

  1. nerf or remove rush entirely from tiger only
    2.max deck size to 50 (others still can make 40 card decks no problem)
  2. give us match based 2/3 rank mode with siding.

this is not “oh i hate tiger rant” this is me making solutions to help deal with tiger and fast paced games only then would nightwatcher be played. and this response goes to all future replies so can you all just calm down


#14

You have presented many solutions. What you haven’t convinced me of is that there is any problem to be solved.


#15

ive already seen and responded to your reasoning for trying to keep it in the game… they had actually tried to nerf it before but community cried when it happened it was chaos trust me i remembered


#16

Oh trust me, as a control deck user, the worst way to die is to any sort of rush. I personally think that rush should be reworked to exhaust after moving/ attacking. But I think some people suggested that making rush available to certain factions only may be an appropriate solution.

However, the game as it is, although I really don’t like getting bursted down, tiger seems kinda fine. It’s mostly used as a 3 damage removal( or more with buffs) or as a 3 damage finisher. I lose way more to the answer or die situations than tigers mostly. And I do agree that it is essential that such a minion is accessible to new players.

Making decks consisting of 50 cards will make decks less consistent and more frustrating to control decks. It is true that you may have more answer, but it is also true that you not draw what you need. The fast meta game, prevalent burst combos and mostly out of hand damage is the problem with this feeling of not having enough answers. Also the fact that generals have a mere 25 health and cp intends to make games last 10mins long only. Unless their vision changes and better control cards with more health for generals, making decks thicker is definitely not gonna help control decks.

As for the last game mode, I’m sorry but I fail to understand what you’re trying to say o.O


#17

Why are people taking this thread and OP seriously

Why


#18

Cause I’m taking the time to reply to your comment as well.


#19

well as a yugioh player maybe the designers of counterplay may understand what im saying. I have seen this mode is another game aswell so it may be up to them to implement the rules. last game mode is match mode so you make your 40 card deck and have for example 6 or 9 side deck cards now these side deck cards are not in your main deck… so you go in and play your first game its best 2 out of 3 games after the first game for example you win the first game you have to win the second game to win the match. So right before the second game starts you will have the option to use your side deck cards for example you have nightwatcher in your side deck you will trade cards of your choice from your side deck into your main deck. this way rush decks that rely on tigers will have a harder time beating you and this presents duelyst to be even more tactical. as for the 50 card deck inconsistency response lets just say i am a master of ratio and making this viable. its deck size so u can have between 40 to 50 cards for main deck. having this option will make future expansions viable so you wont see everyone running same deck or have limitations to try new cards cuz at this point as good as monthly cards are they are not impactful in the game because of the 40 card deck. i know how to make larger deck works this way duelyst will cater to both burst and slow control decks


#20

because it isnt just about tiger have an open mind please


#21

I think you are saying many things that have little point in your argument which makes your points less clear. You need to state your problem clearer.

  1. Rarity should not be something looked at when speaking on balance. Rarity only affects how easy it is to get a card. So for example a proper argument would be not a lot of people have Nightwatcher because it is an Epic. Also Makantor Warbeast is an Epic, not a Legendary :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:.

  2. You speak a lot about rush. Do you think rush as a whole is a problem? Is only Saberspine Tiger the problem?

  3. So what are you wanting to happen to the Tiger? Removed, nerfed, changed or any of the three?

  4. There is no need for some long example from the first turn, then random Krons until tigers. All you needed to say that tigers give some late game burst for lethal.
    Your example doesn’t even suggest that the general is losing enough life to be killed by tigers.

  5. Why are you speaking about different factions? Are you suggesting that a neutral rush minion is affecting the balance between factions? Or are you saying some factions have too less/much burst? Is how much rush available to a faction a problem?

  6. Deck size does not affect balance of a card. It only affects probability.

  7. 2/3 game mode again doesn’t really affect tigers. If a side deck can solve the tiger problem then you could probably solve for a one game mode. If not then you do not.

  8. Your entire opening post doesn’t even mention Nightwatcher in the title! :laughing:
    Gotta explain why Nightwatcher is not enough.


#22

Hmm haven’t tried the format out to have any insight. On paper it sounds good cause you can have more cards, more slots for tech cards and more options. But I think duelyst doesn’t have that large of a card pool atm , and they’re having trouble balancing things as they are. Implementing this may make things worse.