Remove "Rush" From All Factions


#1

I fully expect to hear the negative comments.

Hear me out.

I’ve played quite a few card games over the years. I’ve even been lucky enough to be professionally competitive in a couple. Haste, Rush, Ferocity… is not a new mechanic. It has been used in CCGs for decades.

When combined with a faction keyword, rush makes it far too easy to swing the momentum of the match. There is no ability to properly counter, or plan for, a rushed minion.

My proposal is to make rush a neutral ONLY keyword. This would give equal opportunity across the factions.


#2

If you have played many then you should know that it is a common mainstay and is really not an issue as long as things are kept in balance.

You have it backwards, Rush should only be in one, maybe two factions so it can be carefully balanced around as part of the factions identity. Neutral Rush units are a huge issue as they are very hard to balance and in turn mean every single faction has to be nerfed and designed with these in mind. A rush unit can have carefully balanced stats and be designed around its faction. However neutral rush, or cards that give rush are nightmares to balance and limit design (looking at you inner focus.)

Rush has plenty of counterplay. Its shut down by provoke, it has limited reach, and still requires positioning on both players parts to use.


#3

Wouldn’t that just skew the ability to be more powerful in factions that make use of buffs?

I get that it would come at card disadvantage inherently (save lyonar, who would still get the same mileage out of it), but does it really solve anything, then, beyond having different things attached to the rush minion?

Aside from that, as far as faction keywords go, none of the rush minions have them, unless you count frenzy as a Magmar keyword. They’ll never let that happen to Vet again, and the faction keywords for Lyonar, Vanar, Magmar, and Abyssian wouldn’t be particularly useful for one, either. I could see it for Songhai, but they wouldn’t let that happen without a combo (see Viper and IF).

That’s a pretty optimistic look on it, I think. Rush minions have enormous range (up to 3/4s of the map, and anything less than that will allow them to dodge obstacles as well, which eliminates the positioning part) and the scenarios in which Provoke effectively blocks Rush are few and far between. I know I never feel safe from it unless there are either two provoke minions covering all angles, or I’m against a wall.


#6

No, OP doesn’t like Makantor Warbeast, Spectral Revenant and Tusk Boar.


#7

Good positioning makes it hard to get a rush unit to a backline unit like shadowdancer/Priestess/fourwinds. Provoke still protects the back line quite effectivly as a well placed one blocks all viable paths. Mankator is really tough and quite strong, but it can be played around with diagonal positioning. Protecting the general from rush can be hard, but as you pointed out provoke+wall does it and is fairly easy to pull off.

It can be hard to do, and can’t always be done, but it certainly can be done. Rush units have the most interaction of any out of hand thing.

I can understand the apprehension about it though, between a long history of tiger abuses, inner focus issues, and on the rare occasion Magmar is dominating the meta, it can feel a bit oppressive. It is a very easy keyword to make to strong.


#8

Except it wouldn’t as different factions have different buff cards that greatly influence how useful the rush is within their faction. So much from your years long experience :grin:


#9

But but but but…

If rush gets removed from Magmar, I can’t engage in Menstruating Wankbum + Keeper of the Value shenanigans and watch the player base lament about cancerous pulling-huge-tempo-swing-outta-my-dinosaur-ass!

Or EVEN WORSE, having Warbeast and Elucidator reworked and become neutrals to be abused by the card pool of other factions? tears welling up

I need my daily dose of salt and tears, please don’t rob that away from me T.T

On a serious note, what you are suggesting has huge balance implications (cue can of worms opening). I don’t think you can nerf/remove/limit or “neutralise” (different meaning here) rush without having a look at a whole range of mechanics currently implemented to see if they too need the same treatment, while considering huge changes to stat lines and each faction’s repertoire of healing/defensive options.

If faction specific rush minions are truly problematic, then why isn’t Magmar (or Obelysk Vet by continuously generating rush fodder) overwhelmingly dominating the meta? And how does making rush neutral only solve this perceived issue? I also haven’t seen a rush minion with a faction keyword before. Spectral Revenant doesn’t have deathwatch nor shadow creep interaction, Makantor and Elucidator doesn’t have Grow nor Rebirth, nor have I seen a built-in rush+blast, rush+backstab, etc.

Moving on to the sub-point that rush in itself is an issue… saying that there is no way to plan ahead for rush is weird considering that plenty of games are won and lost based on how well you account for expected threats. Even out of hand damage (like rush minions) can and will be played around.

As an example, the thing that made Reva so dominant before imo wasn’t truly the amazing out of hand damage or psuedo-rush like Inner Focus (or true rush like Tusk Boar). It was the fact that Reva could vomit her hand and consistently and reliably replenish it for another barrage. Out of hand burst like spell slinging and (in this context) rush, pseudo or otherwise, wasn’t and isn’t the problem in itself.

Even barring a specific tech card (Nightwatcher), there’s a whole bunch of things you can do to mitigate,stall or even exploit rush shenanigans. There’s spacing out minions, diagonal placement, provoke, walling off the enemy general, high health or sticky minions, tempo or sustain cards like Circle of Life/ Keliano etc and to a lesser extent well-placed cards that benefit from taking damage.

Also, having a rush minion’s effectiveness reduced by the prevalence of provoke or just body blocking with low-cost minions is actually relatively common, at least in my experience.

In essence, given the existence of other mechanics, counterplay, removals, sustain/heals and other non-rush threats, I personally think faction specific rush minions - and the rush mechanic in general - is fine as is.


#11

B-but, makantor doesn’t have a faction specific keyword ;_;


#12

well, yeah but… it’s still a keyword, right? …right??


#13

I’d be fine with a Makantor nerf if it wasn’t one of the things keeping Magmar viable.

And if Holy Immolation wasn’t basically the same effect but cheaper.


#14

Limit rush minions to only target non-general units on the turn they are played.

All non-Spectral Revenant problems solved! :open_mouth:

Holy Immolation no longer hits face.

Duelyst suddenly a deep and strategic game!


#15

Rush is fine, just nerf the holy makantor and spectral revenant :smiling_imp:


#16

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