Duelyst Forums

Proplayers not as good?

#1

I almost beat meziljie on ladder…he used arcanyst abyssian and i used golem lyonar
He survived with 3 health after healing with trinity wing and had quite decent draw

I thought that proplayers are invincible gods…that they never missplay unless they are realy tired,that they are the ones who make the metadecks and that they can climb with eveything no matter how weak it is.
But seeing such a proplayer almost losing to me while using a metadeck vs a fundeck while having acceptable draw realy hurts that believe

I dont want to sound arrogant.Infact it frustrates me…the thought that the tournamentplayers are just slightly better than the average lowdiamond-s player…the fact that they are not invincible gods who just lose to other gods,a terrible mood or bad rng:(
Im asking you:did i just missjudge his draw?(replay to long ago).
Did bad draw mostlikely almost defeated him?

Please dont judge me as a arrogant fool…im realy desperately searching for an explanation of this which maintains the godlike image the pros have atleast to me

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#2

Pros are basically those who have dedicated a greater certain portion of their time to both analyzing and testing out cards/decks in current metas. That is why they will always carry across certain minions and spells no matter what archetype they are building, they know what are the best cards in the game for almost any situation. Also because they play so often and analyze the top meta decks for each faction they expect certain cards and play around them. So by using an off-meta deck you actually have a certain advantage that you wouldn’t have if you played Mid-Ranged Vaath for example. Also you shouldn’t think they are gods, they are just generally better than most players due to the fact that they practice so often. Also if a pro player blames draw then I don’t consider them a pro.

However though never forget they are limited to using the same cards as you… so they can never be extremely more powerful than you.

#3

So they are pros thanks to their gameknowedge and deckbuilding skills yet are not that far superior in terms of actual plays(piloting)(playing around minor stuff of metadecks aswell(which is irrelevant once you use a notmetadeck)…i think that playing around makantor(flash),imolation etc is something every diamondplayer should be capable off)
In other words:Its fairly possible to beat them for a commoner without absurd luck?

#4

Yeah it is, but i must say that they are usually superior in terms of setting up plays and executing plays when compared to players who do not spend similar time on the game.

#5

Playing on ladder is not akin to playing in a tournie, he could very well have been memeing or testing out new stuff. Remember, pros play duelyst for fun sometimes too :wink:

#7

Since Pro players usually put more time into a game, their should know the matches between meta decks really well. Against non-meta or fun decks that knowledge probably isn’t there, which allows for surprising results to happen.

I would say nothing, but reality shows tournament wins. Although I don’t know if that has happened in Duelyst, where someone has simply netdeck stuff and won a tournament. I don’t follow tournament stuff outside of the world championship tournament for most games which have a tournament scene.

#8

I’ve beaten several Grandmasters on ladder several times, but that doesn’t make me better than them. Trust me, the tournament scene is far different from the ladder scene.

They aren’t invincible gods, they’re just good players.

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#9

I don’t think it’s a matter of the “pro” players not being as good as you might think. Like @owlington mentioned, they are limited to the same cards as any other player.

I think it’s just that these cards are becoming more and more powerful, and at a certain point, it becomes a matter of who is able to draw their extremely powerful cards first rather than outplaying the opponent. There’s only so much a player can do when cards are strong enough on their own, no matter how much experience that player might have.

#10

The reason that top players seem beatable is that, honestly, the game is not that deep, at least compared to stuff like chess and go, the gap between players is not large. However make no mistake that they are the top players and they win tournaments for a reason, they are very consistant and know how to play the decks.
As others have said ladder play is different to tournaments, they won’t concentrate as much, they will be testing stuff like the arcanyst abbysian deck you faced, so their win percentage will go down. Also golem lyonar is from my experience hit or miss, so draw rng is kinda also a factor here.

#11

Would be noticeable if you meet several “proplayers” and beat them more than you expected.

If you fought one and won, really it’s anecdotic and irrelevant, don’t think it worth a thread.

One thing is sure, they’re not “invicibel gods”, they’re just more dedicated players.
Not even “pro”, as in “professional” as in “I earn my living from it” :slight_smile:

1 Like
#12

Too be honest i hate when people talk down about Pro players, if anyone could win a tournament,why dont we see randos winning all the time. These players do so much outside and inside a tournement game, and they understand the game very well so it’s no fluke that they win. It’s not just time spent either, playing a lot doesn’t give someone the ability to craft new and viable decks. It takes special qualities to be as good as some of the pro players, and not all of the qualities can be achieved with just practice.

In addition, in the game you mentioned where he was down to three health, you still lost. It doesn’t matter how close these games are, all that matters is who’s general dies first, that’s what decides who’s the winner. It was probably a very calculated risk Meziljie took so that he could win, which is not surprising in the slightest.

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#13

Hey guys I have a brilliant idea! I’m going to study the ability of Poker pros but studying just ONE HAND. If I can almost beat them in one hand I’m almost as good right?

Flippancy aside, this post COMPLETELY MISUNDERSTANDS was skill in a serious and fundamental way. What makes Mez one of the best is that when you look at a large sample of games (e.g 500 games) he does better than most others. He wins maybe 400 whereas you win maybe 275 or something.

Right now, you are trying to judge the quality of an entire piece of music by studying a single chord; it ought to be obvious why this is silly.

7 Likes
#14

I might have made a small error in judgement here but its still not as grave as you make it out to be
Anyways the reason im this negative pretty much everywhere is that i feel like theres no reason to discuss positive things…since noone mentions them its very unlikely that someone dislikes them
I noticed that it was not just him almost losing to me which caused me to doubt him.
Theres just so much stored anger this game gave me with the ancient bonds expansion…so much concentrationbreaking anger about the broken arcanyst and to some extend vaath decks around the new cards and those who abuse them.
And now within all of this comes the ,pro, who abuses such a cheap archetype and still barely wins…
I dont know how i could overlook this…but now i see that it was the realization of him using one of these decks aswell which truly caused me to doubt him and the proscene

#15

there is no difference between barely winning and a complete stomp at the end of the day, and if the game was as close as you say then maybe arcanysts aren’t as broken as you think they are. If the game makes you so angry then maybe don’t play?

#16

Because even with all the flaws it has its still one of the most skill based tcg out there.I just cant find similar tcg to switch to untill they fix the balance

#17

The problem is here, maybe you should take a break, or work on your nerves (yoga ?).

#18

Yeah, that’s the reason I play faie now. It just isn’t fun playing a game at such a significant disadvantage. Sure, I’m missing some cards… but once I get mana death grip, I’m sure that duelyst will be more fun than cs go again :smiley:

#19

Well if you played 10 games with aomeone of equal skill, you would win around 5 out of 10, when veraus a pro it would be 3 out of 10. They are pros because they know how to win a greater number of times, not because they don’t lose.

#20

I have no idea why someone would ever think that, they are players just like you, but with much more experience and/or courage. Everyone misplays from time to time, how often depends on the ability to focus and the mentioned experience.

Many of them don’t build too much themselves and often use netdecks because of easy accessibility. Yes, most of them are definitely above average when it comes to the ability of building decks, but that doesn’t mean they have to use their own decks all the time, they may play someone’s else deck to e.g. see weaknesses of it to abuse them later.

A single loss doesn’t mean anything. Hell, even multiple don’t. You know Dragall, right? I’ve played against him several times on the ladder and I don’t think he has ever beaten me, even though I’m almost always playing off-meta decks. I lost to him only in Gauntlet, where I’d say I’m more experienced, because I played around one type of burst and went into range of another. Does that make me think I’m better? No way, he’s much mroe experienced and I’m sure I’d lose to him in a tournament, if I played in those.

Details like that can change the outcome of game, there’s also fatigue, illness, lack of motivation, overconfidence, bad match-up, bad RNG (especially that Duelyst is dumbed down more and more), etc. - many things you should be able to think of as well if you go deeper.

#21

But what if it’s a game you enjoy? Leaves one in a kind of conundrum.