Duelyst Forums

Predictions: Immortal Vanguards Pre-Release Bitesize Reviews & Polls

#5

Yes I suspect it is. It’s too easy to trade a cheaper Minion into and I think the effect can be played around too easily. With Maevh you can guarantee a kill + Husk on 5 Mana which sounds really good but that requires a board state that’s beneficial to a move like that. I might just be wrong.

I can imagine, I think it’s just too random to see play in Ranked. You could get perfect answers but you’re more likely to get cards that just aren’t useful to you, and spending 9 Mana to cast it kills any tempo you might still be hanging onto at that point. I think reliability is going to weigh more heavily than potential, for most people.

#6

Niche count: 21
Trash count: 10

This expansion’s got more trash and niches than a coral reef!

In all seriousness, the niche cards are usually more worrisome than the ones that seem like they would fit into many decks.

#7

There are 2 decks that I’m really excited to play: Zoo Brome and Mech Songhai. With Zoo Brome, I believe the combination of Auroara, SurgeForger, Warblade, and other buffs will make your minions a huge threat and give you plenty of options to win the game.

In regards to Mech Songhai, I feel like people are vastly underestimating the strength of Dusk Rigger: it provides you with a 0 cost Mechaz0r activator that you can essentially use whenever you want. I feel that this will be especially strong in conjunction with S.I.L.V.E.R.: at 6 mana, you can generate at the very least a 7/5 and a 6/6 that both have Frenzy, Airdrop (kinda), Range, and Forcefield. It is also important to note that this 0 cost spell also helps Alter Rex, although I’m not sure how important that will be. Furthermore, I believe that Assassination Protocol will really help mechs, allowing you to immediately use DECEPTIBOT and Mechaz0r to gain immediate value on clearing the board. I believe these synergies will help you develop a massive, threatening board that makes it difficult for your opponent to effectively deal with. I also feel that this may also benefit off of running Project Omega simply due to the number of threats you would be able to create with SILVER at 6 mana, although I feel it may just end up being a win-more in that case (and I don’t know how large Project Omega would get in Songhai in comparison to Vanar, who would arguably be able to generate more Mech units due to Echo Deliverant). Overall though, I am interested to see how this expansion affects deck building, and what new archetypes will come out of it.

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#8

Honestly i think eyolith is a good card.
Its effect happens immediatly despite being a build minion and they cant run from it
The only problem is i dont see this card fitting into any deck where seraphim reflection isnt just better
Its pandora and jax all over again

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#9

I wish I had the energy to participate, but I do not.
Like it though and interesting.

#10

Poll 1 build: Personally I think some of the build cards are simply bad, but a couple could be great, in particular Ironcliffe Monument. Problem with the build cards is that they are open to being killed before changing, having to be used at a certain point (like Songhai’s one for mana ramp) or is just too slow and the game will end.

Poll 2 Mechaz0r: Going off just Mechaz0r itself, i’m undecided on how dangerous the card now is. Potentially, it could be more dangerous than before but its now open against spells which could balance that out.

Poll 3 New Mechs: I think any mech costing over 4 mana is going to have a hard time fitting into a deck. Any mech costing 2 or 3 mana will most likely get in and at 4 its probably going to be on the edge. The exception would be SILVER but I’m not sure how many mechs you could have on the board at the same time as this to make it worth putting into the deck.

Poll 4 Hype: There isn’t really any deck or card I really want to play from this expansion, but that could change when all the cards are out there and revealed.

Poll 5 Expansion Impact: Yes, its going to affect mech decks at the very least. Other decks I don’t know/care as I really don’t follow the meta closely.

Poll 6 Preorders: I’m not buying the preorder pack as I’m not going to go and buy diamonds. If it was just straight up money for packs, without the diamond currency, then I would have.

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#11

Build: While I think the mechanic is pretty weak in a game as fast as Duelyst, build does have all the makings of a mechanic that can spawn broken cards. Whenever a card game releases a new mechanic, there is always one or two ridiculously overpowered cards since the developers did not have previous experience balancing that mechanic. For example, Hearthstone Quests and MTG veichles are both novel mechanics that let extremely oppressive cards, Caverns Below and Smuggler’s Copter respectively, slip through. This is only natural when introducing new mechanics, and I predict that one or two Build-related cards will fall into this category.

Mech stuff: I don’t like mechs. I feel that their synergies lead to every faction building he same deck with a few extra bells and whistles. I’m sure that mech decks from all factions will be experimented with for the first few weeks before settling on one or two optimized faction lists. However, I do think that the new mech decks will be much less sporadic than the current Mech decks, and provide more opportunities for Counterplay.

Another thing to note is that some of the mechs might be good enough to fit into non-Mech decks. Running Deciptibot and a few good tempo mechs might be a valid option for a regular old midranged deck. Deciptibot, in my opinion, is a very threatening minion. You can include it with a few decent tempo mechs, such as Chassis, Sword, and Nightmare Operant, and it will become an acceptably stated 4 drop with snowball potential. Not bad at all.

While the new mechs have pretty nice sprites, I’m a bit disappointed that all of them revealed so far are humanoid. Where are the robot puppers?

Hype: a modest amount of hype. The biggest hype generator of this expansion, the new generals, have already been released. Now we just have to wait until 4/6 of them finally become playable.

Expansion Impact:
Here is where I make a fool of myself with meta predictions. I already sold my honour to Joseki to get to S-rank, so here goes nothing:

  • Superior Mirage stocks will go WAY up, with the introduction of powerful Bloodsurge minions
  • Magmar Mech burn will be the dominant deck for the first week after the expansion
  • Seismoid or Bloodbound Mentor will become the new circulus
  • Vanar will still stick to their Anti-fun ways unless something gets nerfed
  • Maehv and Cypheron will be Sajj tier
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#12

Ciphyron is better at Sabatoge Vet and artifacts (since the ability to take no damage exists). He’s not Sajj tier.

#13

making this short and simple… expansion is gunna be totally awesome because the devs never fail to bring at least 4 broken cards to the game that pisses ppl off lol

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#14

Magesworn and Sunset Paragons will become common tech cards for Mantra and Mech decks respectively (even if MechaZor can be removed using spells now)

Ragnora will be the new most hated General with his ripper pupa bomb/greater Fortitude shenanigans.

I honestly don’t think the meta will be too different given what I’ve seen so far. Ragnora will probably rise to power, and Mech decks will be more consistent, but decks like Swarm Zirix, Wall Faie, and 8 G8ts Reva will still be top tier (yes, I think Reva is the Eight Gates general. I think Shidai is solely for Mantra)

There will be at least 2 threads made on the forums asking to nerf Mantra.

And lastly, there will be EMP…EVERYWHERE!!! (It’s already everywhere, but it will be even more everywhere than that :stuck_out_tongue:)

These are my 100% can’t possibly fail, always correct predictions.

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#15

But mechaz0r has forecield now
Unless you are cass, run lots of bloodtears or dont mind punching a 6/6 paragon aint gonna do jack shit against mech

My prediction
First two weeks are for memes and experimentation
Then we find like 3 completly broken cards/combos that dominate the meta and are run in literally every deck
Cries for nerfs which will come 2 months later in the form we least expect
When things settle down, they announce a new expansion

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#16

Rx is solid card maybe good card here is why

1.They remove it they haven’t hit your face
2.They go face you heal for 5
3. They don’t attack you ,you don’t heal for 5 but they haven’t hit you either

Is it amazing? No but Cass and Songhai are famous for being stupidly aggressive early and praying they find damage later and this card stop those type of decks.Any thing that has good late win con Nosh Rak, Death Knell,Grand Master Kraigon, Metdown,etc will think about this card.

I think people will learn you want your builds to be in play around turn 5.Anything after that is asking to be Zen rui and Grappled.Something to speed up builds tho will help this card alot

Maehv and Cypheron won’t be Sajj tier.Their bbs consistently does something useful unlike Sajj.They might not be great but they won’t be as bad Sajj or Ziran.

Sunset Pargon doesn’t work on Mechazor anymore because of Forcefield

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#17

A few things I love about this expansion:

  • Barely any RNG!
  • A heaping helping of position-based cards!
  • A big emphasis on combos!
  • Support for existing archetypes!
  • Revivals of existing keywords!
  • A push for higher impact cards!
  • Reliquarian!

Overall expected Faction Ranking in terms of how high their card quality is (higher to lower)

Magmar - Vetruvian - Vanar - Songhai - Lyonar - Abyssian

Overall expected Faction Ranking in terms of their new expected Ranked power level

Magmar - Vetruvian - Vanar - Songhai - Lyonar - Abyssian

Best revealed card per Faction & top three Neutrals

Abyssian: Abhorrent Unbirth
Lyonar: Surgeforger
Magmar: Ragnora the Relentless (or Saurian Finality)
Songhai: Shidai Stormblossom (or Penumbraxx)
Vanar: Auroraboros
Vetruvian: Grapnel Paradigm
Neutral: Metaltooth
Neutral: Capricious Marauder
Neutral: Replicant

For posterity, my quick take on the rest of the revealed IV cards!

Abyssian

Deathmark: Abyssian has enough removal that doesn’t require a board. Redundant Trash.
Horrific Visage: Like an inverse Soulshatter Pact that doesn’t help you go face. It might be a good stall card for Doom decks against swarm though? Very Niche, maybe Viable there.
Abhorrent Unbirth: Now that’s how we meme! Fun Answer or Die that is either Trash, or it’s Top Tier because you can use it in a Mech deck where it gets Rush from Metaltooth. Didn’t think of that, did you?
Gate to the Undervault: New keyword! If the Demons are good it might work for a nice chunky value deck. Amazing design. Fun Niche Viable.
Vellumscry: Very expensive but still more affordable than Rite so I expect it to see play in Wraithling or Mech decks. Niche Viable.
Furur Chakram: If any kind of swarm deck gets up and running this’ll be a Niche Staple for it. Very scary.
Betrayal: I cri evrytiem. Guess I shouldn’t be parking my Bonded Minion next to my General anymore :’(. Expensive, but probably good as a Meta tech card.
Stygian Observer: A lot of potential that’ll rock worlds if it has a sufficiently slow deck to shine in. Why not play Variax for that deck though? Seems like a Viable card with nowhere to go. Maybe I’m underselling it because Abyssian does have access to Darkfire Sacrifice. We’ll see.

Lyonar

Steadfast Formation: Too finnicky, trash.
Dauntless Advance: Great for Swarm, Zeal and Artifact decks on swing turns. Big Viable Niche card. Great in Gauntlet!
Sunbond Pavise: People are glossing over this one but I’m pretty pumped because of how much power this pushes for so little mana. Requires an established board though so I’ll go Viable for Ranked.
Vigilator: I don’t see it happening and it’s not artillery so I’m upset regardless.
Decorated Enlistee: Food for a new direction for Heal decks, a 4/5 on 3 mana might just do enough to be worth it. Niche Viable.
Fealty: I like it a lot, but I don’t know if the single Mana cost reduction is going to push it anywhere. Swarm decks might be able to completely refill their hand though so what do I know. Niche Viable/Top Tier.
Invincible: I not only need an established minion, but an unharmed one too? Seems like a fat chance, and if I want to buff something why don’t I run Afterblaze or Bond? Seems like a Viable card that won’t get into gear until the next rotation.
Call to Arms: Powerful, but it requires you to do NOTHING on 7 mana. I don’t see it: Answer or Die Trash.

Magmar

Rage Reactor: As if Ragnora wasn’t scary enough yet. Niche Top Tier Staple unless 3 Health minions disappear.
Erratic Raptyr: Terrifyingly strong with on-hand hatch effects. Yikes. Niche Top Tier Staple.
Upper Hand: Millhorn control support? Does Magmar need more cards to control the board? I don’t see this happening: Niche Trash.
Homeostatic Rebuke: Very clever card, very strong card. Too bad Magmar already had amazing control cards. Looks like a flat-out Top Tier Staple to me, regardless of Niche. Not as good in Gauntlet, but probably still very useful.
Effulgent Infusion: Drogon and Twin Fang support, a great combo card that’ll be killing people from seemingly out of nowhere in no-time. Not sure if that’s a good thing. Niche Staple.
Progenitor: Answer or Die card on a good body and Egg support to boot. Yeah that’s probably another Egg Staple. It is kind of a win-more card, but at 4-Mana I think you’re happy with only 1 or 2 eggs, especially if it’s another Raptyr Egg.
Gigaloth: It’s a bit slow but the buff is so significant that I think it could see play. Ragnora might like it for an elaborate Ripper combo for 21 damage. An all around Answer or Die Viable card.
Saurian Finality: Wow. Seriously. Magmar: the new late-game king? I’m fine with expensive spells having a lot of impact, but this really is a lot of impact. Top Tier Staple, the fourth one I’m predicting for Magmar.

Songhai

Mass Flight: Cool effect for some kind of payoff deck? I don’t know where this’d fit, but I like the idea. Viable.
Penumbraxx: A true assassin that I can’t ping down… Terrifying. Backstab Top Tier Staple Niche. Never mind: it has Build (2). Trash instead.
Thunderbomb: Songhai gets more crowd control, boooo! It looks like a fair card at that cost, terrifying with Eight Gates though… It’s like Phoenix Fire, but with all the trimmings added. Viable Staple.
Bamboozle: The meme that isn’t a meme! OBS with big payoff combo potential! Looks like a Fun Niche Staple with Eternity Painter
Substitution: Did Songhai really need another one of these? And at such a cost? I can’t think of a place for this right now. Trash.
Wildfire Tenketsu: Is there going to be an Eight Gates deck that wants to actually run minions? If so, I’ll bet this’ll be in it. Staple Niche.
Seeker Squad: That’s a lot of mana to spend for 4 Heartseekers. If the opponent can’t answer it you’ll probably just flat-out win but with all the pings in this game I suspect this’ll be Answer or Die Trash. Great for Gauntlet though.
Ornate Hiogi: Great effect but so expensive and no tempo on it. I think it’s going to be too slow: Niche Trash.

Vanar

Essence Sculpt: An amazing card for Ilena that helps her survive the mid-to-late game with her tempo playstyle. I don’t expect to see it outside of her deck, and that’s a good thing. Niche Staple, and a great design.
Protosensor: Can I buff this with Kara? No? Why am I playing it then? Trash, unless there’s some kind of combo my stupid brain is missing.
Aspect of the Bear: An actually fair Aspect card? What year is this? I really like Vanar’s theme of transforming your own stuff, I hope this sees play after the deserved nerfs to AotR and CC. Niche Viable, for token decks.
Shatter: A good card that Ilena needs. I worry that it’ll just see play in Vanarcanysts though. Niche Staple.
Crystalline Reinforcement: Answer or Die in a combo deck that I don’t know about yet. A lot of potential with Kara maybe? I don’t know how good it could be yet, but I see potential.
Hydrogarm: Stun support and Egg hate on a fair body for its price. Good card, I’m not sure Ilena can even trigger Crystallize without a nearby target though? Niche Staple.
Wintertide: Triple Vespyrs with Kara, yes! Love Vespyrs, love the card, love Seismic Elemental. Niche Staple, although I don’t think the Vespyr deck will become meta (it’s too honest for its own good).
Auroraboros: If I’m wrong about Vespyrs this is probably going to be the reason why. It’s probably just going to make Vanarcanysts more unfair though. Niche Answer or Die Top Tier. Why does CPG want the game to revolve around EMP so much?

Vetruvian

Burden of Knowledge: A free cantrip with Falcius or Iris Barrier or a pain deck enabler? Does CPG want Sajj to run Sworn minions? Weird, but interesting. Viable, in Ranked.
Kinematic Projection: Boom b**ch get out the way! Very cool idea and good to see Blast getting some support. I don’t know this’ll have enough impact but at the very least it can function as ranged removal for a turn if you have an established board. Viable.
Equality Constraint: An inverse Divine Bond? Cool! Instantly kills Structures, and that’s all you need to know. Staple if Structures see play and Viable with Ciphyron otherwise.
Neurolink: Seems like it’d be finnicky and win-more but I can see a Fun combo deck happening with this. Pandora combo 2018? I’m betting it’s Trash though, sorry.
Iris Barrier: Solo Sajj support, yay! Alongside Falcius it is going to be very difficult to get her down. I think this might be exactly what Sajj needed, especially now that she has Lost Artificer. Niche Staple.
Skyppy: Yes, it says Legendary Artifact. We’ll see if it fits (3 slot is pretty crowded) but I’d expect it will: a Staple. Also great for letting new players play around with cards they don’t have yet, nice!
Barren Shrike: It seems slow at 4 mana. Great in Gauntlet if you get it going. Why doesn’t it have Flying? Viable in Gauntlet, Trash in Ranked.
Lost in the Desert: Waaaaaaay too conditional, especially for a Faction that doesn’t move the enemy around. It’s like Decimate, but even less reliable. Trash.

Neutral

Metaltooth: Instant Mech deck Staple, especially for Lyonar because they can easily buff it but really for any variant that runs S.I.L.V.E.R.
Recombobulus: Does Kaleos want this? What is this for? I really don’t know how to judge this card, but it’s Trash in Gauntlet.
Redsteel Minos: Great art, elegant and strong effect. I’ll be trying to make a Blood Surge deck with this but I mostly expect it to rock worlds in Gauntlet. Viable.
Timekeeper: And there it is! If it weren’t a 2/2 for 4 Mana it would see actual play. Trash.
Impervious Giago: It’s Baymax in Golurk’s armor! and Divine Bond food. It might be good, but the Airdrop is really important on Guardian. Looks Viable though.
Capricious Marauder: I really think CPG is underestimating how powerful this card is going to be in Ranked. You can build your deck around abusing this to súch an insane degree. It might be a soft Meta counter to EMP though. Poor Lyonar players like me don’t even have a viable way to deal with this! Martyrdom sets our own clock back and Aperion’s Claim is 0 tempo and 2 turns away when this drops! Maybe I’m overselling this but I expect several decks to come out of abusing this thing, including Solo Faie, Ilena, Sajj, Vaath and maybe even a weird Artifact Argeon Bond deck. Answer or Die Top Tier card.
Q’orrhlma’a aka ‘Bless You’: This is an amazing piece of design that might spawn a breed of ultraconsistent Ranked decks by itself. Removing your own chaff for the late game only helps you a lot of the time and disrupting the enemy deck can be really powerful. Duelyst matches might be too quick for this effect to really matter and a 6/6 stat stick isn’t mindblowing in terms of tempo but this card is a deckbuilder’s wet dream, and I suspect it’ll be Niche Viable, at least.
Reliquarian: Looks like either a Fun Meme or something truly special. The design pegs it as a Lyonar card but I can see many decks run this, depending on how good those ‘Faction artifacts’ actually turn out to be. Really cool card in principle that I hope to be playing without punishing myself for it.

Guess I’ll find out how impressively incorrect I am tomorrow!

Briefly on the new announced nerfs:
Bloodrage Mask: Good change
Spectral Revenant: I’d have made it damage BOTH Generals instead, but good change
Aspect of the Ravager: Good change, I hope it’s enough
Chromatic Cold: Good change, but a bit conservative
Frostburn: Very good change
Saberspine Tiger: Good change, although it’s probably just useless now outside of some combo deck.

2 Likes
#18

Penumbraxx is good?

Idk seems a lot of effort and time poured into something that HAS to backstab the turn it’s spawned. Consider me unimpressed.

#19

It looks too slow for me. With build 1 it would be so interesting

#20

Oh wow, I would’ve sworn it has Build (1). Never mind then, I’m wrong.

#21

to the mono thing since Vet got a some control tools and taking control of other minions you could get an heavy control deck playing mono or even arcanyst but thats just an asumtion :#

#22

its build 2
but when it backstabs it transforms into a build 1

1 Like
#23

2 words
coporeal
cadence

abyss basically got nothing but finishers and removal this expansion

also deathmark is for maehv since she cant ping or wraithling

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#24

But… he’s the robot devil from Futurama. Who can say no to the robot devil doing a happy dance?
image

1 Like