Opinion: Power Creep Adjustments


#1

Ah, Koan; my love for you knows no-- oh, right; the thread.

I have opinions! Opinions, and an insistent desire to shout those opinions at people as if I know a bloody thing about what I’m talking about!

What am I talking about? The old shit! Lets revise the old shit!


Disclaimer: This is just one Songhai player’s plan to reinvigorate some old cards. I’m not trying to make shit bad. I’m not trying to make shit good. I’m trying to make suggestions that improve deckbuilding options.

Also, I’m posting this the night before a major set, so… yeah :slight_smile:

Lyonar


Lyonar is actually in a very solid place, which makes suggesting a change to them difficult. If I could pick a change, however, it would be to encourage diversifying Lyonar’s mid-game.

Radiant Dragoon

3 cost | Minion | 3/4 | Rare
At the end of your turn, give a friendly minion +1 Health.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

3 cost | Minion | 3/4 | Rare
At the end of your turn, give a friendly minion +1 Health (including itself).

Radiant Dragoon is a great unit who unfortunately just doesn’t make the cut due to his effect not making enough of a difference. With one small tweak, we can improve him though.

My suggestion is to change the script for his effect so that he includes himself as a “friendly minion”; this way, he’s guaranteed to give health out each turn, and can become a more viable 3-drop option.

Songhai


Songhai, like Lyonar, is actually in a pretty solid place. Don’t get me wrong, there are some cards I would change, but Songhai is all about utility and movement, which they have in spades. The one place I do think improvement can help them is in their main bodies:

Ace

1 cost | Battle Pet | 1/2 Common
Ranged

vvvvvvvvvvvv

Suggestion A)
0 cost | Battle Pet | 1/2 Common
Ranged

Suggestion B)
1 cost | Battle Pet | 1/2 Common
Ranged
Ace may move only 1 space each turn.

Some background: I LOVE turtles. In fact, I used to own three red-eared sliders, and often jest that they’re my spirit animal. Even then, I just can’t justify the use of Ace as it is.

I actually have two suggestions for ways Ace can be made usable (although still not great):

The first suggestion is to decrease Ace’s cost. At 0 cost, Ace can be used to position advantageously or to take mana tiles for a faux resource boost. Overall Ace is still a net negative, but this way Ace fits an actual purpose for a deck to consider running it.

The second suggestion is to mitigate its disadvantage by limiting its movement. As a battle pet, Ranged is effectively moot, as you have no control over your target, and are unable to run away from enemies. Through an additional effect limiting Ace’s movement, you can keep Ace from running straight into enemy arms, and instead add some tactic to herding him around.

In addition, both suggestions could be further improved upon by giving Ace 3 Health, although I’d rather err on the side of caution over buffing cards too heavily.

Shadow Waltz

1 cost | Spell | Common
Lower the cost of all minions with Backstab in your action bar by 1 and give them +1/+1.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

2 cost | Spell | Common
Lower the cost of all minions with Backstab in your action bar by 1 and give them +1/+1. Draw a card at end of turn.

Shadow Waltz is an unfortunate card in an unfortunate spot. While this may change in a short 12 hours, there are currently very few Backstab minions, let alone Backstab minions worth playing. As such, Shadow Waltz just isn’t a beneficial card, being an innate -1 to begin with.

My suggestion is to increase Shadow Waltz’s cost by one, but give it Songhai’s cantrip effect at end of turn, allowing you to mitigate the -1 the card typically achieves, and potentially making it usable in Songhai without losing too much tempo.

Artifact Defiler

2 cost | Spell | Common
Destroy all artifacts on the enemy General.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

1 cost | Spell | Common
Decrease the durability of all artifacts on the enemy General by 1. Draw a card at end of turn.

This was a tough one, because Artifact Defiler really is just “purely situational”. One thought I had was to allow you to draw once for each artifact destroyed, but that didn’t solve how situational it was.

My solution was to decrease its cost by 1, and make it into a straight-up cantrip. I’m still not happy with this solution, but artifacts are extremely limited in options right now, so an artifact destroying card is always going to be conditional. This may prove too weak compared to effects that simply do more, but at least it can find a place in the most diehard of Spellhai decks as a non-conditional cantrip.

Keshrai Fanblade

4 cost | Minion | 5/3 | Common
Opening Gambit: Next turn, opponent’s spells cost 2 more to cast.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

4 cost | Minion | 5/4 | Common
Opening Gambit: Next turn, opponent’s spells cost 2 more to cast.

I really want to like Keshrai Fanblade, and I really want to use her; she could be a great beatstick in Tempo, but the one thing holding her back is her fragility. For a four drop, she’s practically an expensive vase just asking to be broken by a green-tunic clad hero searching for Rupees.

My only recommendation for her is to increase her Health stat by 1 to a respectable 4. As a 5/4, she makes a strong beatstick with an invisible one-turn effect on the battlefield.

Vetruvian


Vetruvian is kind of a mess of strong but costly cards, and mediocre cards they’re forced to run due to holes in their faction; they lack reach, direct swarm, and direct power; but everything they lack, they make up for indirectly, occasionally stacking effects and spawning units out of thin air. I would like to primarily focus on changes to cheapen their utility cards, while keeping them lacking in directness.

Sand Trap

2 cost | Spell | Common
Choose an enemy minion. It can no longer move.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

1 cost | Spell | Common
Choose an enemy minion. It can no longer move.

Sand Trap is actually soft removal for beatstick creatures. As such, I’d like to treat it as the inverse of Vanar’s Aspect of the Fox, and run it at 1 cost as well. Where Aspect is great for removing powerful effects, Sand Trap might find a place for removing strong beatsticks from reaching you in the first place.

Fountain of Youth

2 cost | Spell | Rare
Restore all friendly minions to full Health.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

2 cost | Spell | Rare
Restore all friendly minions to full Health. Draw a card.

Fountain of Youth itself isn’t bad considering that Vetruvian has a number of high health units, but it’s largely a card for reacting to damage accumulated. It does not help a player who doesn’t have tempo.

One solution to make the card slightly more usable in poor situations, is to add cantripping to its effect. This allows the player to prevent negative 1’ing with this card, and allows it to be expended when searching for resources on the run. Fountain of Youth then becomes a weaker Inner Oasis; whether to run one, the other, or both then becomes a question of deck space, as Fountain becomes a true option for Vetruvian.

Corpse Combustion

5 cost | Spell | Epic
Summon all friendly minions with Dying Wish destroyed since your last turn on random spaces.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

6 cost | Spell | Epic
Summon all minions with Dying Wish destroyed since your last turn on random spaces under your control.

This was a tough one, so I decided to make Corpse Combustion AMAZING yet maintain its situationalness.

Corpse Combustion’s biggest problem is establishing the condition when it’s beneficial. It’s just not often that you’re able to get more than 1-2 creatures with this effect; and that’s something I’d like to investigate improving. Being able to ninja your opponent’s dead fits perfectly into Vetruvian’s motif (Mirage Master, Psychic Conduit, etc), and this card represents a situational high reward.

Due to the extra versatility of punishing some of your opponent’s cards, and how this affects Abyssian and the Vetruvian mirror in particular, I’m also suggesting its cost be increased by 1.

Every faction except Lyonar and Magmar contain at least 1 Dying Wish card, and Neutrals contain 10, including 2-3 seen in common play.

Pantheran

6 cost | Minion | 6/6 | Epic
Costs 0 if you’ve cast all three Scion’s Wish spells this game.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

6 cost | Minion | 6/6 | Epic
Costs 1 less for each Scion’s Wish spell cast this game.

I love Pantheran, but he’s just not a viable card to run due to the requirement of playing 3 very specific spells.

One solution to this is to give him the Mandrake treatment, and just make him easier to summon the further along in your goal (playing a Scion’s Wish) you are, which was the route I chose to take.


Magmar

Magmar is one of the two factions I listed where I’m actually recommend a straight up nerf to a card. They’re in an extremely good position, but I’d like to remove some globality to a few of their effects, and make them function more as AOE, as 2x2 and 3x3 areas are one of Magmar’s flavors.

Thumping Wave

3 cost | Spell | Rare
Give a minion +5 Attack. At end of turn, transform it into a 3/3 Kin.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

3 cost | Spell | Rare
Give a minion +3 Attack. At end of turn, transform it into a 3/3 Kin.

This suggestion was actually made by the Discord chat when I was asking earlier, but it makes sense: for 1 more cost than a Saberspine Seal, you get the added utility of being able to use this as Dispel (an expensive Aspect of the Fox), and at end your creature potentially “heals” to becomes a 3/3 again.

This is a huge nerf, so I was a bit reserved to suggest it here, but Thumping Wave combos have evidently been ruining people’s days.

Mind Steal

4 cost | Spell | Epic
Steal a random minion from your opponent’s deck and summon it.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

5 cost | Spell | Epic
Steal a random minion from your opponent’s Action Bar and summon it.

Whoa, what’s this, you might ask? Well, it’s Mind Steal actually becoming an effective tempo card. Mind Steal was always an interesting card, but it never quite took off, and just doesn’t net you much of an advantage; it’s just far too random. Not only does this effectively decrease your opponent’s cards in hand, but it also is a far more targeted, and risky spell to play.

Your opponent is more likely to keep cards in hand that fit their curve, and as the game ramps up, so does the cost of things they’re willing to keep in their hand. The issue is that you do run the risk of hitting nothing. Despite this, I’m also increasing the cost by 1 due to hand control being a particularly strong element in card games.

Plasma Storm

5 cost | Spell | Basic
Destroy ALL minions with 3 or less Attack.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

4 cost | Spell | Basic
Destroy ALL minions with 3 or less Attack in a 3x3 area.

This is another huge nerf, but it’s hopefully one that’s a bit more agreeable. Removing a global effect from the game means that the opponent gains the ability to position around it, but so does the turn player when choosing which area to play the spell in.

As I mentioned in the faction description, one goal is to draw more consistency in Magmar, and one of their core aspects are spells that designate 2x2 and 3x3 areas. In the Discord chat, one user suggested that making Plasma Storm affect a 3x3 area would be perfect for it, and I agreed.


Vanar

Vanar is a tricky faction to balance; their cards are extremely proficient at controlling the opponent’s actions, but are also full of powerful effects and abilities. In fact, like Songhai, positioning is one of their core strengths, and a requirement of the faction. I’d like to suggest changes that further emphasize this by giving positional benefits to a few cards we rarely see used.

Lightning Blitz

2 cost | Spell | Epic
Give all friendly minions +1/+1 and randomly teleport them to your opponent’s starting side of the battlefield.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

3 cost | Spell | Epic
Give all friendly minions +1/+1 and teleport them forward towards the first unit they encounter or the opposite side of the battlefield.

This one’s a bit wordy, but effectively: we’ve removed the random element from Lightning Blitz, and instead transformed it into a RUSH FORWARD effect, having each creature teleport until they either are in front of another creature, or have reached the far side of the battlefield.

By removing the random element of Lightning Blitz, we turn this into a “suddenly Vanar!” card with a bit more guidance behind it. As such, I feel that increasing its cost to 3 is a perfectly reasonable suggestion to make.

Winterblade

4 cost | Artifact | Epic
Your General gains +2 Attack. Enemy minions damaged by your General are Stunned.

vvvvvvvvvvvv

4 cost | Artifact | Epic
Your General gains +2 Attack. Enemies damaged by your General are Stunned.

Compare Winterblade with White Asp, an equivalent cost’d Artifact in Vanar. This should be an obvious card in need of some kind of change.

The first thing we can do is open this up to also stun Generals. Yes, General Stun is a very strong effect, but the way I see it Vanar can already do this with Icy for cheaper with an extra body out, and this way it better compares to Avalanche in regards to the Winter motif.

Interestingly, I believe the stun also applies to Faie’s ability, so you add some interesting and potentially broken synergy with what was one of the least interesting artifacts in the game.


Neutrals

Neutrals… will not be done. Why? Because it’s 2am, and I’m tired. Get off my lawn, darn kids!!!


I hope you guys didn’t mind reading my opinions on buffing a few cards in the game. Obviously these are not the only changes that could be made, and many of these cards can still be considered bad, unusable, or just otherwise meh. My goal wasn’t to suggest ways to make things instantly amazing, but to suggest ways to make them options. I believe that most skipped over cards are simply waiting for a new resource to make them amazing, so don’t fret if I skipped your pet peeve “this needs to be fixed”!

I can’t wait for the new set, and I hope to play some good matches with you guys (except Cass players). Cheers!

Koan is love, Koan is life.

Koan Heart
4 cost Songhai Spell
Transform target minion into a Gorehorn and activate it.

Make it so, Counterplay!


#2

So buff every faction except Magmar, makes sense. Plasma storm is op as hell.


#3

:slight_smile: I’d say the Mind Steal buff is pretty huge, but sadly, I guess so.

I made this list by going through each of the cards in the crafting screen one by one, and asking myself whether I can imagine a situation where I’d want to bring that card out or not.

Magmar’s Plasma Storm and Thumping Wave nerfs were largely because I was talking to the Discord about writing this earlier, and those two came up a lot; I actually didn’t realize I only listed 3 Magmar cards until you pointed this out :frowning:

In a weird way, I suppose you can take that as me thinking the Magmar faction is already quite strong :slight_smile:


#4

Even after a buff Mind steal won’t see much play it’s still too random. Like a Reaper of the Nine Moons but without flying and 5/3 body also it doesn’t help with the worst Magmar match-ups, Plasma Storm nerf would kill the faction. Thumping is the only problematic card in Magmar and there are dozens of underplayed straight up bad cards, and your reasoning of nerf is redicilous.
Also if you find Magmar hard to fight against, you can run some Night Watchers and buff them.


#5

Well, vetruvian doesn’t get this better.


#6

I’m just going to go out and state that your Mind Steal rework is an absolute nightmare for any control deck to face, and feels not only very powerful but horribly unfair to be on the recieving end of.


#7

Also, don’t step on others when they TRY TO SUGGEST something that could make better the game.

The only real problems of magmar are his “look at me i’m big” kind of play that give players the feel of op and the lack of ways to be played with. They are actually a good factions and IMO they don’t really need buff or nerf, just some card that can make some archetype better and/or playable.

I’m main vetruvian so:
The real problem of the “fountain of youth” is that “inner oasis” is better in almost every situation.
If pushed i would make “Fountain of youth” a removal like “a minion becomes a ‘baby’ 0/1 with no effect” but in the end is the same effect of the eggmorph (don’t remember the name, may be wrong). Not cool man, not cool.

Corpse combustion is fun, and that is all, don’t expect to win with a card saying “do something, maybe” and, worst of all, in a lot of games doesn’t reward you for your previous positioning. If you are good enough to make your minion die all in the same turn just to see them spawn at random…it’s kinda meh anyway (and sorry but if it wasn’t random would be rather strong, maybe op).

Phanteran, it’s ‘pretty’ but doesn’t fit in the faction, vet counts a lot on “must-dispel” minions, an ignorant 6/6 without a board effect won’t be played anyway unless really strong (and a little buffed, but not so little). Anyway, good idea on that one.


#8

No “fountain of youth” is bad because it is a tempo-less cards for a faction with 0-strong high heath minion. Even if fountain cycles, it would still see no plays. And you are dead wrong if you say a 2-3 mana 6/6 wont be played (still draw dependent so maybe).

About the topic, @cradstache version of plasma storm is overpower. U can delete the opponents board starting from turn 2, if thats not unfun and uninteractive, i dont know what is. Plasma have a board wide effect to make sure player cant blow the opponent board and protect their own. And Mind steal would be a nightmare in control meta…

edited


#9

Well, i see it from the sinergy aspect, vet are struggling enough to keep their decks from being souless, if they start being a low cost big brainless minion faction with some obelisk here and there…

Minion value decks are lyonar properties imo


#10

Im pretty sure obelisk and blast are value-oriented keyword, yes? Though the inherent weakness to @cradstache version is the same as CP version of pantheran: very draw dependent. It needs you to draw and play a very small and specific part of your deck (scion’s wishes), and even in the later part of the game, you cant guarantee the discount. Mandrake only needs you AND your opponent to play minions, which everybody does. It would be better to change it to something less specific and works with both general .E.g: “Cost one less for each card you draw this game” - card cost change to 8. This plays into Vet cycle effects, playable by both general and consistent.

About lyonar, sometimes u have to fight value with value.

edited


#11

Bias is a funny thing it shows it self in pretty apparent ways… Look at his songhai suggestions there is a reason songhai can’t have cheap card draw its why mana vortex was nerfed. I faced a songhai player last night who vomited out waltz minions getting me to 4 hp in less then 4 turns he lost because he ran out of steam… That’s the price you pay to deal that much damage.

You really seem to dislike magmar giving them multiple nerds except maybe mind steal ill give you that

On Vanar winter blade can’t have that buff because the other Vanar 2 drop Artifact cold biter combos with it… To LITERALLY STUN LOCK MONSTER now imagine if you could do that to a general


#12

Wow hello!

I REALLY like your suggestions!

Really cool!!

The suggestions I do not remark on below I agree with and really like!

A few remarks:
Ace is still bad. Heartseeker is never put into decks, 1 mana 1/1 no battle pet. I think it could have 2 attack, maybe 1 health.

Artifact Defiler, I think destroying all artifacts is really powerful. The problem with this card is the faction it’s in, but with different deck variations I can see this get played. Removing 1 durability isn’t that good, and you frankly use the card draw gimmick a tad too often imho. Why not: 2 mana, destroy all artifacts on the enemy general, deal 2 damage to the general for each artifact destroyed.
It will never be very popular due to the faction it’s in, we should accept that, I feel that some new decks could want this card.

Thumping Wave, I’d make it 4 attack. It doesn’t really need a nerf at all, but 1 less attack seems okay. 2 less is pretty harsh.

Plasma Storm: No, Magmar needs some cards with reach, this is fine as is. Use Kinetic Equilibrium if you want 3x3 removal. Sorry, disagree with this.

Just wanted to reiterate that you have really cool ideas that leave the ideas of the cards very much intact and I love the subtle yet powerful changes on the majority of your suggestions!
Very nice :smiley:


#13

Well, you’ll agree playing a 6/6 is not playing an obelisk

about the rest, you’re right


#14

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