On the nerf of Veteran Silithar: is it fine?


#1

I hope there is not already a topic on this, but what do you think about the nerf to Veteran Silithar?

I already wrote my opinion in the “complaints” thread, but I’d like to know what the community thinks on this specific topic. I think Veteran Silithar was a strong card, but not nearly a problematic one. Faction-specific cards are supposed to be strong and all factions have powerful cards. Veteran Silithar is an extremely important minion for Magmar, since other faction minions with similar cost are too slow, being based on the Grow mechanic. After the nerf, I believe the card has become almost unplayable: any 3-attack minion can trade with it, letting the opponent general destroy the egg without taking damage.

This means that just one (likely weaker) minion on the board is enough to deal with the card, leaving the opponent a full turn and mana to build new threats on her side. I believe this may be an awful tempo loss and I’m pretty sure I don’t want to play the card anymore in my decks. What’s your opinion on this? I’d like to read your posts besides the poll results, if you like.

  • The nerf was needed and it looks fine
  • The nerf was needed, but it is too harsh
  • The card was fine as it was

0 voters


#2

Aren’t you happy it dies more easily so you can trigger egg shenanigans off it?


#3

My first experience with the new veteran silithar was playing against Songhai for a quest. By half-way through the game I was replacing them for other cards.


#4

I don’t know what you mean by “egg sheganigans”, can you elaborate? However, my point is: it is to easy to kill the body and the egg is not going to stay on the board, so we don’t care whether it hatches at the beginning or at the end of the turn, which I believe was the rationale behind the nerf.


#5

I do think it likely needed a nerf. It was already one of the strongest 4 drops before egg rush was a thing. But I tried it in a couple games and I ended up taking them all out of my decks.

It dies to cheaper minions and so much damage based removal. Honestly now it’s almost strictly worse than the nerfed funsteel. At least funsteel gets 4 damage in any time something attacks it, but after 3 damage veteran silithar is a helpless egg. Mobius might be better now.

I would say they got silithar elder about right. In return for the shorter window before it gets out of hand it has a smaller body, not that a 6/6 rebirth and an egg are easy to remove via damage. New egg rules do increase the upside on rebirth cards, but veteran’s main value was its stickyness, which is kaput now. Heck even at 4/4 I might like veteran, but it dies to friggen saberspine tigers and pheonix fire.


#6

No, I’m not. Plain and simple, I want my stuff to not die. Also egg shenanigans aren’t even that good, and cost too much


#7

Egg shenanigans wont work unless you can control when the minion is killed.

Veteran slithar saw 0 play at high rank before egg rule change, swapped in favor of sunsteel and taygete. It will continue to see 0 play unless put back to 5 health. 4 won’t be much better than 3.


#8

It’s difficult to make a case for Veteran Silithar at 4/3 when Sunsteel Defender’s Forcefield resets on your opponent’s turn, too. That just trumps the “Egg synergy” way too often.

Veteran Silithar needs to be at least something like 5/3 and Silithar Elder something like 8/5. Huehuehuehue. =S


#9

If it had to be changed id prefer a 3/5. Part of the fun of rebirth minions for me has been the mind games you can play when they know they cant remove the whole minion on their turn, so they won’t hit it at all. Hard to have that be the case when they start at 3 health. Also, at 3 flashing them out doesnt work at all, whereas it works with sunsteel fine. Also, im tired of 3 health 4 drops.

Idk what counterplay was thinking. Taygete and sunsteel are the drops of choice for magmar, veteran needed to be better than one of them in order to make the egg synergy a thing. Even at 4 health id take taygete any day, and sunsteel no question is better.


#10

Personally I think it would of been more than enough to just have it be a 4/4 or 3/5 but I suppose I could be nuts.


#11

I can see some of the argument by comparing veteran to Sunsteel and dioltas, but you also have to consider the rarity of the card, as while the latter 2 are arguably better, they still cost a lot more to make then veteran. Now I haven’t tried Magmar yet with the expansion, but it’s already difficult for an opponent to get rid of a 4/5, not to mention the egg it leaves behind or else it faces a 4/5 with rush again. It might be better at 4 health, but I think 5 health would just make it like the old Taygete to beginning/lower ranked players.


#12

Rarity is one thing, but sun steel and dioltas are also neutral minions, meaning they lack the inherent downside of having to play magmar.

What does this mean? Class cards are generally supposed to be slightly better than neutral minions because of that class restriction, not worse. While you have a point, I feel that this is more important than rarity.

I also sympathize with those who think that veteran silithar should be nerfed, and maybe it should be, but please not 2 stat points, and that too both in health, the most important part about a rebirth minion. If it’s too squishy, it’ll be too easy to just destroy the minion and then the egg.

That’s just my opinion though


#13

+1

That’s not opinion either; it’s a basic tenant of card games in the lineage of Mtg (which Duelyst certainly is).


#14

Egg Morph and the new Magmar Artifact? I assume CP did their testing and concluded that Veteran was too survivable in the context of the new Egg mechanic. Rebirth minions have huge potential whenever they survive; if you trade Veteran into an enemy you can immediately hatch it to trade into something else/go face. Reduced survivability can translate into pseudo-celerity, right?


#15

Yeah, if your opponent couldn’t one-shot it with pretty much any non-2 drop. New veteran silithar is too squishy, and dies before you can do stuff like pseudo celerity.


#16

The entire point of rebirth is supposed to be that the opponent needs to worry not only about getting rid of the body but also the egg. With a health of 5 that requires planning and resources. With 3, it is trivial.

Dioltas, a neutral, is CLEARLY better than veteran. One more attack, same health, and you can’t just ping what it leaves behind to get rid of it. It being epic is irrelevant because it is useful in so many decks that everyone is going to get 3 anyway.

Heck, even hailstone golem is arguably better than the nerfed veteran.


#17

Well I’m not a Magmar player, so I’ll take your word for it, my condolences in that case. Good luck coping and/or petitioning CP.


#18

I actually don’t have a strong preference for any faction at the moment and am not raising a fuss because of any effect on me personally. I’m just saying that objectively veteran has now become very weak. Anyone can discover this for themselves using it in a game against Songhai, for example.

There may yet be some egg builds that will be strong despite this nerfing. But it’s not like veteran was a powerhouse 4-drop before. Now, it’s in a bad spot.


#19

I was already cutting veteran slithar in favor of sunsteel defender, taygete and the neutral sister, and now they made it worse -_-
I know you can make a case for it that you can now suicide the silithar then use the new artifact to hatch it immediately and atack again, the only problem is that they are now so squishy they don’t even stick for one round.
I think the core problem with magmar mechanics (grow and rebirth) is that they only really work if you’re ahead. If your opponent has control of the board you’re basically just playing under-statted minions.


#20

The worst part is dreadnought, as its basically garbage without other cards holding it up. It kind of feels like Magmar didn’t even get legendaries this expansion. Vetran would have made the card playable at least. I hope I am wrong though and eggmar is a thing.