As of ArtiReva, spreading your minions and blocking teleport points (3 squares straight from Reva with tracer) helps in addition to any burn and artifact counters you may have in your decks.
Speaking of which, I’ve never seen 3x Magesworn in any list ever.
Recheck my Arcanyst thread
Titan runs Msworn often right? Although probably more often as 2x.
I did find a combination of practically never go face with general, healing, packing some kind of pings against the artifacts, and putting pressure with high stats minions (possibly with provoke or other abilities to make them sticky, like forcefield or “second wishing them”) the best way to deal with Mantra lists. Also always try to play against Thunderbomb, as it’s possibly the only spell of which effect can be attenuated by just proper positioning.
Differently from other popular archetypes, often Mantra players know well how to pilot their decks and it’s probably one of the most unforgiving opposing list around so keeping up the concentration and making no missteps against them is fundamental.
So sometimes you are just playing a deck or draw a hand that doesn’t let you do too much against them, or they draw like gods and double abjudicator into a 1 shot or whatever.
But there’s some fundamental things to remember, a 2/3 can deal 4 general damage before it dies, compared to a Phoenix Fire, which does 3. This isn’t a cherry picked example, most minions deal more damage to general than the equivalently costed burn spell. If you say that your creatures never get to deal damage because they die to the burn spells, that just means they were not directed at your face. I understand that the deck uses synergy to make their spells more efficient or get splash damage while they clear your minions, but if they didn’t it’d never function as a deck.
Healing also is more efficient than the equivalently costed burn spell. Again, the synergy of the deck tilts that some, but if it didn’t then no one would play it and we wouldn’t have this conversation.
Also, since they don’t run minions they’re even at best on board, and you can often (but not always) get the majority or all of the mana.
So firstly, I’ll address the “I don’t run any healing” camp. You’re on a time limit. Presumably you’re running your own good stuff though. As I mentioned earlier an unanswered minion of even a medium size can start whaling on their life total at an efficient rate. You will have to put pressure out, that’s almost all you can do. Try not to play into their most obvious clears, if you dump out a swarm don’t play into thunderbomb and don’t overextend into Boosted Ghost Lightnings. Be wary also of putting all your hopes on 1 huge guy, as some decks still run OBS. It is very possible to corner them by playing minions atop of minions and then just take their lunch money in the corner of the school yard. You may be at the mercy of their draws and how well they play though. But it’s important to know that you can force their mantra early for healing if they are scared that your board + a little extra out of hand damage could score a lethal. In this situation it could come down to how much damage they draw in the subsequent turns vs how much you can deal.
I know it often doesn’t seem like it but forcing them to use an 8 gates to power up a Thunderbomb or Ghost Lightning, or use a Bear Seal on your high HP minion, or cast Mantra for the heal this turn rather than waiting another really does affect them and how much damage they can deal over the course of the game.
If you have healing then things look a little brighter, the above still applies, but how much healing you have should inform how you can use it. It is not wise to think that you can heal up any damage they do, and never apply any pressure, since given enough time to sculpt a perfect hand the deck is capable of 25 damage in 1 turn. But if you are Ziran for example you can probably pretty happily charge in knowing that you have quite a bit of buffer HP that you can use to put pressure on them early. If you have Desolator you can actually just ride the Desolator every turn train. Earth Sphere and particularly Saurian Finality are despair inducing cards for Mantra players. More commonly if you have something a little smaller like Azure Herald then you typically want to hold it for 5-7 mana turns depending on how many abjudicators and how much chip damage you’ve taken, the idea being to play your minions that apply more pressure earlier, and heal at the last moment to mess with their calculations for 1 shot or 2 turn lethals.
If your deck doesn’t have healing and can’t put on pressure, then pray to god that you enact whatever gameplan your deck does do faster than they can.
Hope this is helpful.
Yeah, I guess it’s my main problem
My advice would be to try and avoid having your general next to your minions, while sending them towards the enemy general. Plus, staying away from the enemy general. Thunderbomb and general attacks can deal the damage that is needed to kill you or to put you in range for lethal. But that is my limited experience playing against mantra this season against Jay. Played him twice, losing the first game and winning the other.
Dont let them hit your face, but make sure to keep minions up against them and try to over run them.
My advice is to play a few cheap high damage potential minions to pressure them into using their removal. Since they run mainly spells, it’s very inefficient for them to remove your cheaper, snow-ball threats. Play mid-sized threats, buff them, and run mantra over.
Also, save a bit of removal. I run capricious marauder in my Mantra list.
Yea I don’t like this thread at all.
And I don’t like you not liking Bangle
Besides asking for a major rework of the archetype and reviewing/removing Bloodrage Mask, swarming, multi-pinging, taunting and airdropping are always terrifying for mantra, but i’ll agree that the archetype is a bitch to deal with, much like Knucklestorm decks also are a pain.
what deck are you running against mantra btw?
I guez I aM kinda nu heer. I recentlie hit s wid wandururrrrrr rugnura. Very fun dek wid tun uf skill. Mi favorite car iz rebouk cuz it iz fare and helpz me cum back when I iz behInd. But recentlee I haz ben playin vs dis weard dek which uses all duh spelz and finishes off wid a fire car wich heels too. I kerp trying 2 beet eet but I can’t serm to rebouk hiz cresent speer. Plz help dis dek iz borken.
I almost knew I would get it here.
Are you asking me?
Lately, I’ve been playing lots of Ascension Sajj (bad against Mantra), different Lil swarm (bad against Mantra), Artihai (bad against Mantra), Artifact/Midrange Kaleos (bad against Mantra, and meme in general) and Frenzy Cass (bad against all non-minion decks, but decimates Wanderer and Fault).
Step 1: Be Vetruvian
Step 2: Have Prophet of the White Palm, Orbriders and Mirrorim
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!
(This idea is not liable for any losses incurred against decks that include but are not limited to- decks with no spells, decks with few spells (25% of cards), decks that aren’t Songhai, decks with Kaleos, decks with more then 6 artifacts and decks without firestorm mantra.)
yup, i just think mantra is one of those decks whose answer depends on what you run.
some sticky minions are actually pretty useful here. Usually, they don’t expect it. but if they do, and they use OBS, they won’t expect the chakram or shadow reflection.
idk what other tips i can give. I hope that helps.
Swarm Lili actually has it quite bad with beefier choices against Mantra (at least agains those who run Crescent Spear, which I guess they should). Wraithcrown is the only decent one I can think of, which still goes easily away with pings. Shadowdancer? Obs or Spear+PF. Vorpal? Nice, but they kill you at 7. Bloodmoon? Ehehehe.