New Player: Liked the Game but now quitting, final feedback


EDIT: Rewriting the post a bit to clarify some misconceptions people had in the comments, hopefully this serves to be more clear. Edited parts in brackets.

Hey devs. I just started the game a few days ago. The concept is great, but I can’t see myself getting too involved in the game in the future. In short, the game is [too much like Legacy / Competitive EDH MtG for my liking]. What I mean by this is, that each faction has so many substrategies which all require such niche answers. [The strategies and need for answers themselves aren’t the problem, it’s the speed at which a player is required to provide them (usually turn 4/5 in my experience even at rank 19 play).]

“Hey I’m a ranged faction that can easily make a ranged character, buff it to 6 damage, and teleport it far away into a corner. I hope you have a dispell or a removal spell or you’ll hever be able to play a unit again for the rest of the match.”

“Hey, I’m a token swarm deck. Hope you have a “deal 2 damage to everything spell” because next turn, I’m going to make all these tokens 4/3’s and basically one shot you if you don’t.”

And so it goes. The first 4 turns of the match might as well be a formality. What the match REALLY boils down to, is the point in the game where one player has amassed enough mana to combo together a bunch of cards that demand an immediate answer. You have it, you’re probably going 4 for 1 and putting them on their heels the rest of the game. You don’t, you lose. End of story. [This, to me, makes the game feel like a coin toss where the matches feel too short lived in too many instances because player A “baits” answer from player B, and player B didn’t actually happen to get an answer].

I’m sorry, but this isn’t fun. For all the effort you put into the grid system, I was hoping for more “Advance Wars” and less “MtG Legacy Lite”.

I don’t know what else to say, other than good luck. Hopefully you found some of this feedback helpful.


There are many different decks (Mech, Arcanyst, etc) and types of decks (Aggro, Ramp, etc) and each has different strengths and weaknesses against other decks.

I’ll be honest, what you seemed to be angry about to me is that not every deck can be answered by the same thing. Answers can be very swingy, but that’s because Duelyst is advertised as a fast game, with swingy turns, back and forth.


I don’t think it’s too swingy. Obviously that’s subjective though. I feel it’s swingy enough that you don’t lose 5 turns before you run out of health. I don’t want to brag, but I’ve lost tons of games I should have won because my opponent survived long enough to combo me. And vice versa.


I’m not angry. Dealing with Eternal’s mana screw / flood for 40% of my games one day, got me pretty angry. This isn’t anger, this is just me realizing that how the game is designed, just isn’t the type of game I was looking to play. Because the survery they have you fill out when you uninstall doesn’t give you much space to explain yourself, I wrote this here in case the devs wanted a further explanation.

As far as “not every deck can be answered by the same thing” that’s not it at all. I just got done playing Eternal for a week, and Eternal had the same thing. Aggro / Swarm decks need boardwipe answers, control decks with giant endgame bombs need silence / removal answers, etc. Same thing. The difference is that the “need to answer” moments in Eternal happen a bit later in the game and have some build up to them. In this game it’s like turn 4/5 which I feel doesn’t give you enough time to look for answers. Especially when you don’t even know what kind of deck your opponent is playing, because many decks use some of the same “goodstuff” starting units.

I just got done reading another suggestion thread where they were talking about the ranged ability and some dude was like “yeah range isn’t even good, it’s just something high level players use to bait removal”. I facepalmed so hard. If ranged wasn’t good, there’d be no need to waste removal on it. What people really mean when they say that, is that strong ranged units are a good example of “must answer” early game units to exhaust removal so that your opponent won’t have it for late game synergy.

Like, that seems so bizarre to me. If you DON’T happen to have the removal that the range is supposed to “bait” then what? If the ranged really is just “bait” then nothing of consequence should happen, should it? Like, people can’t have it both ways on this one.

I agree with your post, but note you’re missing the point. Yes, I just played a game today where this guy had like 4 19/19 growth, nasty monsters on field, and I managed to run away, make them chase me around, then power up a couple charge cats, send them in and get the kill out from under him. He was not happy.Yes, interesting comebacks can happen. But you want to know what happened turn 4/5 to allow the game to get that far? I happened to draw a dispel and a removal spell to deal with some early game stuff that would have immediately lost me the game had it lived.

What I’m talking about is the “back and forth” that happens turns 4/5 that determines if a game makes it far enough to have the interesting stuff happen in the late game that you’re talking about. Namely aobut how some combinations demand and IMMEDIATE answer that you don’t even know you need before you see it, and you don’t even know if you’ll have it until it happens. Feels less “strategy” and more “binary coin toss”.

Thanks for the replies, always happy to hear other people’s take on things.


I think what you write is inherent to any card game with a deck building component. To overly simplify, Aggro counters combo, control counters aggro, combo counters control and midrange tries to be a special blend which can adapt.

You can build a very consistent deck with few bad matchups, but you are not guaranteed to draw your answers in time. Adapting your game plan to deal with this scenario is one of the skills needed to succeed.

Good players can hit Diamond with a win rate higher than 80%, which is impressive, and they play the same game as you (and me). In other CCGs good players cannot have more than 65% of winrate, because their skill cap is significantly lower.


Yes, but to what extent?

The problem is how quickly you’re expected to draw your answers, not that you need them at all.

Turn 5, your opponent creates a ranged character, butffs it to 6 power and teleports it clear on the opposite side of the map. You haven’t drawn a silence or any long range removal. You’re not “adapting” to that. You’re having all your units removed on your opponent’s turn at no cost to them. The game will proceed to be a one sided match where your opponent plays units while you don’t, until eventually you draw a long range answer, at which point you hope that your opponent hasn’t put ANOTHER ranged unit in a different corner entirely, because then you’ll need another one.

I don’t even believe you unless they already have all cards needed before the start of a season.


Good players CAN hit diamond with a winrate HIGHER than 80%. Especially at the later portions of the season. I’ve done it myself a few times. Of course they’d have all the cards they needed, they have more then that and then some. They’re veterans. You’re not in a position to discredit a statement like that given your lack of experience with the game.

as far as your concerns with the game, these can be heavily mitigated by playing a rounded out deck with a good amount of control tools AND the replace mechanic. Meta knowledge is very important here, your opening mulligans and replaces can easily make or break certain matchups and its a skill you develop over time.

its a card game, sometimes you’ll draw ass and lose, and it’ll be extremely frustrating, but thats card games.

Learning how to stall, body block ect, bait and work with what you have is another skill that mitigates these seemingly “answer or die” scenarios. Duelyst is a game with a very high skill cap and if you look at the games being played at the top of S, you can see why.


You are partially right with your feedback, the game is fast and swingy that’s pretty much a fact. It has lots of “answer or die” cards that quickly snowball if they aren’t answered immediately. However, the game also has a lot of very efficient and flexible answers that allow you to deal with this.

Yes, there will be games where your opponent drops that threat and you just can’t find an answer in time and lose. There will also be games where your opponent seems to have just the perfect answer to every play you make. That’s called (bad) luck and is inherent to every card game. In MTG you can lose the game before it even started by getting mana screw/flood despite mulligan it’s just a normal thing about card games.

That being said, the skill aspect of this game is much higher than in most of it’s competitors and you can get very high winrates when you are better than your opponents. What Tsevech said about reaching Diamond with 80% winrates is absolutely true. And no it doesn’t require all the cards to do that. Songhai is by far my worst faction and yet, the last time i made a new account and made a Songhai deck on this account i went trough silver with a 22 games winstreak. Iirc i’ve lost 2 games in total on my way to gold and that was just because of really dump missplays. If you know what you do then these extreme cases i mentioned up there will be just that, extreme outliers/exceptions, they are not the rule.

There is also something you miss about the whole ranged topic. Buffing up a ranged minion to 6 atk and teleporting it to the end of the field can win you the game if the opponent doesn’t have removal. BUT, if he has the removal it means that you just lost 3 cards for nothing. So while this move is high reward, it’s even higher risk. That’s why you won’t see moves like that very often in high level play.

When making a deck you have to account for these snowball threats and put in cards to deal with them. Usually i have between 3 and 6 ranged hard removals and 2-5 mass removal spells depending on how controllish my deck is. The key comes in realizing what kind of deck your opponent is playing, what his key threats might be and preserving your removal for those threats. I’ve had games against Vetruvian for example where i was holding on to that repulsor beast from turn one waiting for them to play that Aymara so i could send it to the other end of the field and just win from there.

TL:DR you are right in general but due to your lack of experience the problem seems to be much bigger to you than it actually is. If you wanna quit that’s your choice but i would suggest to keep playing for a while, the real game starts in diamond, everything before that is childs play and not a real representation of how the game works when played properly.


Looks pretty much like “I don’t understand how to build decks for this game but i think i have the grasp of the game”. Duelyst has more answer or die cards than any game i can remember playing, Duelyst also has the most efficient removal of any game i have played. It has hard to imagine a scary minion staying on the board for more than one turn.The best example i can give you is Silthar elder is unplayable,Silthar Elder is one of the most sticky minions you can make in a game It has 6/6 body with rebirth and drop eggs that turns into a Silthar Elder. And it is totally unplayable because good Duelyst decks has stupid removal.

This is constant thing new players join the game and every once in awhile one of them is bold enough to going into a rant about how Range is over powered and the game is snowbally.People tell them no it isn’t bad as you think it is then one of two things happen

-They quit


-They stick around.

The ones that stick around eventually find themselves in thread like this saying " I use to think something similiar to this but i learned how to play better and got more cards and I found out i was wrong" Anyways good luck in your other game but i have feeling you are going to find the same problem in any game that you play


“Silthar elder is unplayable”

Them fightin’ words.


I’d almost argue the opposite case. I’ve never been to diamond (think rank 6 or 7), and I can’t remember a more uninteresting time to play than in the high ranks. Yea, the real game starts in terms of skill, but it is also when the real game starts to show it’s colors - a mob of players using the same cards over and over again, and it gets stale for me, quick.

I’ve been here for a little while now, and this is my only first card game I had taken with any seriousness. Yes, the library of played cards now has broadened since UP expansion, but the whole concept of staples is the single biggest turnoff for me in this game.

A staple to an archetype is one thing, but when staples present themselves with out-of-archetype level of power, it’s just…ugh. It might as well be on the same level as first person shooter cheaters/hackers, because when I see a staple, all it makes me think of is, “Really? You want to win that badly to put in a boring card like that?”

I’ve currently been playing a (literal) basic deck up to rank 18 atm, and while I still see those staples, it’s less frequent and there’s less standard, boring try-hard deck builds that you see again and again in high gold (and I’m certain in diamond too).


That’s why I barely play for a prolonged period of time anymore. Sooner rather than later a situation arises where my enjoyment of the game goes from fun to frustration in a matter of seconds.

Just before I read your post I was in a Gauntlet match. The first few turns were back and forth until both me and my opponent were down to only two/three cards in hand. I had him surrounded with two Silverguard Knights (3/5 Provoke dudes) and a healthy life cushion. I felt comfortable and it looked as if two or three more turns of trading would leave my opponent depleted of resources. Then he played E.M.P. I lost the turn after. My deck contained a single Martyrdom which I had to use on a Thunderhorn before (which would’ve otherwise already crushed me). I had a single replace to draw into a Repulsor Beast/Provoke minion to delay the inevitable by another turn or two. But as it happened, the game went from strongly being in my favour to nigh unwinnable in my opponents 4th turn because he played a single card.

In Magic the Gathering that would be considered losing to a bomb. But unlike there, in Duelyst the density of bombs is much higher and the time you’re given to find an answer to them is much shorter.

To the folks who say “git gud”, “ppl hit Diamond with 80% win rate”, etc. Stop lying to yourself. In the time that I have been playing Duelyst, I have seen only a single instance of someone having a 70% win rate over a representative amount of games on ladder and that was during Songhai’s reign of terror and by a player who I would consider being among the top 1%. Whenever you see someone post screenshots of their climb to S-Rank/whatever their win rate is usually between 50-60%.


You compare an s-rank climb, probably within the first 2 weeks of a season, to a diamond climb, that are entirely different worlds. Climbing from bronze to diamond with around 80% winrate is certainly possible. I think even I could pull that off in the second half of the season and I am average at best as far as s-rank players go. Maintaining such a winrate all the way through diamond is nearly impossible to anyone barring maybe the top tour players.


I have never hit S-Rank, but I can reliably tell you good players can hit Diamond with 80% of winrate. During my best seasons, I was able to hit 4 with 70% winrate and I’m far from the best players around. Of course, to get these numbers you must not push the climb in two days, but have a healthy pace: I never play more than 4 matches per day.

I think @kingw, @edward4244, @gabriek and other S-Rank regulars can comment more on this. None says that the OP doesn’t have a point on some game issues, but they are far from being as bad as you make them sound.


And yet people used that as an example to reinforce statements about the general design of Duelyst. You don’t prove general statements with isolated incidents.


We are not talking about “isolated incidents” we are talking about something that any decent player can pull off whenever he feels like it. If you don’t believe it that’s fine, but as far as i am concerned, this is a fact. (talking about the diamond climb here, 80% to S-rank is something i am not sure about)

/edit in order to not just leave it at empty words:

This is my winrate this month from Silver 11 to Diamond using Backstab Kaleos and Arcanyst Reva for the most part:

Shouldn’t be too hard to imagine how it would look like if i had to go all the way through bronze and silver before hand.


To be perfectly honest, I personally have never found hitting S rank all that difficult, even when climbing with subpar lists by meta standards so this is a tricky topic to comment on.

There simply aren’t all that many “good” players to reliably point at a 80% diamond wr statistic as some norm, which imo it really is not outside of said group of players.

I get where OP is coming from though, although I tend to agree and disagree somewhat on the subject. Good fundamentals and clean positioning is still very relevant and is massively understated by the community in how much of a contributing factor it is to your overall wr. That being said to claim in the same breath that Duelyst is “far more tactical” than it’s peers is borderline facetious and trivialities the tactical aspects of it’s competitors.

Being disappointed that this isn’t the tactical venture it never was in the first place isn’t a sin. Different strokes and all that.


Laddering is about persistence, which I don’t have the stomach for. I feel like the OP’s opinion on the matter is very valid, but the game is what it is for a good reason- and it’s just the nature of card games to work like that. The OP didn’t get what they expected, and cannot be bothered to learn the positioning game down to dodging a high burst cheese-downs- and to be especially fair, the basic cardpool is not especially good at positioning against that.


The OP has a point. There are plenty of answer-or-die cards in the game. And this core to the games’ design, where “Lightning quick matches” is part of the brief.

But there are many answers in this game, and the ability to replace each turn means it should be highly likely you have an answer. I tried playing a divine bond deck at diamond last season, where basically every card I played was answer-or-die, I got absolutely destroyed because answers were everywhere.

Maybe the OP is just looking for a slower game? Maybe shardbound or faeria is a good fit.


Shadow watcher Nerf’s threads are my fav. Lyogiggle.