Nerf threads here could really use a nerf


#1

This phenomenon is obviously a lot older, but I’ve noticed a slew of ‘this faction’ and ‘this card’ should be nerfed threads pop up in very quick succession. It seem we can’t go a day without a thread clamoring for one thing or another to be nerfed, balanced or otherwise changed! A good number of these make sense of course (even when they lack concrete data or solid play testing beforehand) and often follow on the heels of balance changes or the release of new cards, but several seem to jump the gun hard core. For those threads:

What happened to just asking for advice? I miss the old ‘How do you guys deal with x’ threads where OP leaves room for themselves simply being inexperienced or missing some key insight, and we instead get very hyperbolic ‘THIS CARD/FACTION/ETC IS TEH B0RKZ NERF NAO CP IS INCOMPETENT’ exhortations that inexorably get talked down by calmer, more dyed-in-the-wool players into ‘yeah that happens and occasionally sucks, but here are some things you can do to mitigate it’ discussions. I didn’t link any threads above that exemplify this attitude, they were just the most recent threads that touch on this subject that I chose to highlight how common talking about nerfs is nowadays.

Barging into a discussion with a very definite conclusion tends to just raise ire in general, and especially when it comes to calls for nerfing (or buffing) cards you need a very level-headed approach to come to anything constructive.

This is just a little something that bothers me from time to time, what do you think? Perhaps you have some very typical experiences that illustrate this phenomenon?


Dear developer : Readjust Holly Immolation!
#2

Well, I feel that complaining about every single card of every faction you don’t main is just part of human nature tbh


#3

Okay as someone who has posted one, have you began to think that maybe we already looked up advice. This game is one that has luck involved as in all games. However, this game also has the fact that one minion on the board left unchecked can lose you the game. It can leave you feeling unfair or cheated, because even if you added the cards that could counter such a deck and you didn’t draw it. You feel like there was no way for you to win.

It also comes to point many people mention how annoying and irritating some clans can be, even those who go against the nerf forums. I honestly feel when playing against Abyssian host, I might as well just throw my hands in the air and accept a loss. Even winning, against Soghai or Abyssian leaves me more angry than proud of a win. How can you not help but get mad, and clammier for some change when even Winning doesn’t out weight the losses.

I feel another problem that might be exemplifying these things is there isn’t really variety. Now before you tell me to shut up because their are tones of deck variations. How many decks are just variation of card numbers or that legendary someone obtain. Besides, a mech deck I haven’t see any other kind of deck outside of faction decks. Its not only boring and frustrating to fight a deck over and over losing to the same build/playstyle. It also makes you feel cramped, I don’t particularity like Lyonar but its the only faction that sort of meshes with me. So, if you play a faction that gets dumped on by another faction or least disadvantage. You can’t switch decks or find any real change to get the upper hand. You might feel that particular class is just out of hand.

If there were more deck variety and builds to personal preference. I don’t think there be any chance of lessening the out cries of people. Now you might say hey, this legendary here is perfect to build around or so on. But, a new player or even one who just plays free to play might not be able to afford all those cards or can risk playing outside the norm in fear that it will bust. Which is something that happened to me.


#4

I play different decks all the time, and I don’t have any serious deck. I just like fun new combinations way too much, so yes, I have really weird unexpected decks that are definitely atypical.
I am probably not the only one, so just keep playing and you’ll face me sometime :slight_smile:


#5

Totally agreed

What bugs me the most is that more often than not, and with that a mean almost always, people who complain about cards and demand nerfs have no experience with game design whatsoever.
They just feel something about a card or fact
ion or deck that they don’t like feeling and think things should change because of that.


#6

For the first time in 4 season I don’t feel like I shot myself in the foot just by picking Lilithe as a general. Give us a break guys, playing Abyssian is all about setting swingy turns up, they don’t just pop out of hand. The entire game for Abyssian is just a multiple turn setup for something big and it’s a setup which can be prevented/interacted with. Honestly playing Abyssian I always felt extremely vulnerable to falling behind, as the only catchup mechanic I have is Spectral revenant. If you want to complain about faction, play it first and see how it feels.


#7

Good thing I played it since the start, and dropped it in distaste. Glad people, will assume they haven’t played the deck just because they complain about it.


Abyssian Hosts need to be nerfed
#8

I see no counterplay to your argument. CP plz nerf.


#9

This is a really common issue for many game forums. While I agree that most players would be better off just asking for advice or improving their play, I think there is also some space for balance discussion, though I share your concerns about the tone.

In the spirit of the thread, a few constructive solutions:

1: Just have a single balance thread on the forums, where all such discussion is confined.

2: Make stricter rules for balance threads. E.g a higher requirement of evidence and quality in the original post. If someone posts a thread saying “Kara may be overtuned”, backs it up with evidence that they have a high winrate across all ranks, and then suggests some constructive changes which aren’t “nerf all their best cards”, there could be value in that.

3: Add forum recommendations that new players (like me!) tread carefully when claiming the whole game is broken. Odds are we just don’t understand on a deep enough level to have anything meaningful to say.

Anyway, good post, glad someone brought this up.


#10

I wholeheartedly agree. Most players who come to the forums with their pitchforks sharpened and their torches ablaze seem to base their criticism mostly on very one-dimensional viewpoints and limited experiences. How often do players criticize individual cards solely based on their experiences of playing against them with a single faction?

The worst thing is: this kills the game. How many players take a quick tour through the forums before they decide whether to check out a game for themselves? And how many of those are instantly driven away by the toxic atmosphere those nerf-threads create?

Maybe CP should create a sub-forum for balance discussions and which threads don’t show up in the main feed. That way people can spill their hearts out about whatever was mean to them and we can go back to celebrating the great game that Duelyst is


#11

While I agree that a lot of these nerf posts tend to be in more abundance than usual, but maybe it’s a reaction of the people to indicate something. I mean it’s human nature to wanna win, be competitive, be better than someone else. And nerf threads like these are normal, it just depends on the amount of them.

However, coming from Hearthstone, I have actually seen this before. It seems that when the meta switches from slow to fast or from fast to slow all of a sudden, people tend to get mad and demand some re- rebalancing that caused the dramatic meta shift. And when people have adapted, the uproars dont tend to be so intense. One thing is apparent is that, it seems that the amount of nerf threads seem to appear when the game starts having more snowball effect minions. Now dont get me wrong, I prefer the game to be healthy and all. But there was an apparent shift in the healthy community of hearthstone into a one that is filled with toxicity right after the game released “goblins vs gnomes” expansion. And it seems that with each expansion, the game tends to get more toxic.

Maybe the snowballing effect (it was quite obvious that things are broken in Hearthstone) was the actual reason and people were right for complaining. But maybe as the game progresses, with more cards and more people playing, things just get more competitive. And with the introduction with new cards just makes people amplify their actual effectiveness and overreact.

In every card game, this scenario is quite common after the game has gained some popularity as well as adding on expansions. Is this a sign that Duelyst might get through the same conversion to toxicity that Hearthstone is? I hope not. Is it just people overreacting? Maybe. Is it actually a sign that is indicating that new cards have a hard time to mesh with the existing core sets and be balanced? Maybe. I think it is a bit of everything since the meta is considerably faster after shimzar, as well as the increasing popularity of Duelyst I think (no statistics, hence the “I think” part); or maybe the community is slowly deteriorating (since I’ve witnessed this first hand o.o). I definitely hope it’s not the latter.


#12

Asking for nerfs and putting blame at things other than yourself is way easier than trying to actually get good at the game.

It’s nothing weird really, people always want the easy way out.


#13


#14

I think it might be a stretch to say that it kills the game; if someone is making the active decision to check out the forums before playing the game, then it’s reasonable to assume they’ll understand that complaint threads are common across most games, especially games billed as ‘competitive’.

If you’re saying they might just look at thread titles and flee, then it might not be the game for them. The forum, like the game, is more than just whatever the front page looks like. What I mean is that there’s more to it than its face value. In most threads with good OPs, the vast majority of discussion is very friendly, inviting, and thorough.

I’m very on board with your suggestion of a balance category for threads, that way I can filter them like the tech support threads :?)


#15

ikr lol. it’s even gotten to the point where someone said swarm abyssian needed a nerf. i never thought i would like to see the day where someone said swarm abyssian needed a nerf LOL. can you even believe it xD


#16

To be fair swarm abyssian can feel pretty slanted in some matchups if you don’t have skorn, but that’s just a lack of recognition that it’s the matchup and the wrong tech.


#17

Yeah, unfortunately I’ve seen the thread. I am actually trying really hard not to post in it. Don’t want to give our new mods an excuse to try out their new powers.


#18

lolol i can relate with ya. i had to hold myself back when i posted in it.


#19

As a writer of one of those threads, i have to say: yeah, i see them a lot. But, unfortunetly, sometimes a person just needs to post it.

Why? Well, because its a forum where people talk and discuss things, and sometimes you are feeling something and want to share it with other. Being that feeling good or bad.

Me for example: i dont have friends that play the gane, and its really hard if not impossible to have certain long lasting conversations in-game. So maybe i just need to express myself somewhere and the forums are there for that: long lasting conversations about different subjects brought by people.

We all could critice the posts, saying they have no real evidence, nor experience, or writen in bad manners. OK, but it is good for people to expres themselfs. They could do it in a better way? Yes. But i think it is overall better if people just post this and see what others say instead of just stop playing out of frustration.


#20

As amusing as misinformed opinions are, laughing at them does nothing for the game. Teaching, assisting players in understanding the game from deckbuilding to play will do more.
Granted, some people cannot or do not want to be helped and just want to spew toxicity. In which case, well, their loss.
Though I will admit I shake my head at some of the things I see.