Nerf Faie and CC


Another one of these. Maybe if they did something about it, these would stop…

Nothing new to add that hasn’t already been said before (universal range, ease of abuse, cost efficiency, range of impact, multiple applications, lack of counterplay or avoidance, lack of strategy for either party, free space in deck, infinite amount and application, etc.).

Give her BBS something to make it far less punishing or abusive, like only effect minions, or (easiest solution). When I see that the #1 tip to counter a Faie deck is to just avoid completely, that should be an indicator that things need to change.

I realize that vanar in general long overdue for a massive nerf, and have a ton of other issues that probably need addressing, but this is just another one of those things that really bother me and seems to be the easiest to address


The problem isnt faie…its luminous discharge+ghost seraphim+flawless reflection as a WAAAAY too powerfull and consistent wincon.Abyssian is supposed to be the lategameking yet even deathknell pales in comparison with the possible combos vanar can pull of with flawless reflection…every single thing that they have alive can turn into a ghost seraphim once they hit 7 mana…considering how hard luminous discharge is to remove its just insane_:_

But its counterplay…highly unlikely that they will ever nerf anything again

Afterall there are far more important things…like discord and razor support:(


like I said, I know there are bigger problems the make vanar OP, but the lack of interactivity, counter, weakness, or counterplay of the BBS, CC, and their overall efficiency makes them a more obvious and glaring issue


While yes Vanar is a little strong right now, there is actually plenty of counter-play vs Vanar, you want to talk about a lack of counterplay that’s songhai, but I will try not to get that started again.

Vanar is designed to be THE control faction, some people hate control, some people hate aggro, I am certainly the latter, but just because one of us doesn’t like something does not mean it should not exist as long as it does have counterplay and is not to oppressive.

Vanar is also not really better at control then the other lategame factions, Abyss and Magmar, its just they have a control kit that can match the best of them AND the oppressiveness of Charge/Flawless. Their decks are also heavily position focused and use the board, there is a ton of strategy both playing as and against them, as well as powerful, versatile tech that counters them like any AOE, lightbender, and EMP. (And no I am far from a Vanar main if you think I am biased.)

There are several fairly oppressive decks at the moment, but vanars control kit and Faes BBS have little to do with it, its definitely Luminous/Flawless that is the problem.


I’ve always thought it’d open up some interesting options if Faie’s BBS affected EVERYONE in the enemy general’s column – not just enemies.

That way you still have the effects of the spell, but it gives the opponent more ways to play around it, as well as forcing the Faie player to consider maybe not spamming it.


I can agree to Warbird not being a healthy BBS. I don’t appreciate Faie being able to put you on the clock just because it’s Faie, whereas all other generals need to actively apply pressure through use of resources.

Regarding the Vanar removal package, there are quite a few removal cards that leave behind bodies (Aspect of the Ravager/Shim’Zar, Enfeeble), and they don’t cycle. Chromatic Cold doesn’t cleanly remove minions that have over 2 health, and Frostburn might deal with minions with 3 or less health, but it’s 5 mana. That’s not cheap.

Vanar players often find themselves answering minions with spells, then having to deal with the leftover bodies their removal spells leave behind.

And that’s just to stabilize. They still need to establish threats to prevent being put in a reactive position all over again. Cards like Makantor, Spectral Revenant, and Holy Immolation let other factions respond to threats while simultaneously pushing damage. For Vanar, this is still a dream (save the use of Ghost Seraphim, which I think has its own personal issues in need of addressing).

My only concern for Vanar is that neutrals can’t become too good. Because if neutral cards are the best, then Vanar, having the widest range of removal, will always be the faction to abuse them.


Faies BBS is perfeclty fine. It has a positioning component to it, probably more than most other BBS, it fits the faction theme and is fine balance wise. I guess it’s the best standalone BBS but when considering available synergies it’s not even top 5 anymore since there simply aren’t any outside of Hearthsister and Crypto.
Even most Wall Vanar players on the top of the ladder started to play Kara instead of Faie because Kara is just so much stronger with the deck. 5 x 0/1 walls are nice and all, but 5 X 1/2 walls that threaten 15 damage next turn are in a entirely different league, 2 chip damage every other turn can’t possible compensate for that.
There really is just one thing about Vanar that deserves a change, and it’s neither CC nor Faies BBS.


This will not be the first rant post about Faie and definitely not the last one lurking around forums. It just sounds like you had a bad game against Faie.

To be fair, Faie’s bbs does feel obnoxious at times due to it being a chip damage generator, but it isn’t to the extent of it being oppressive every single game.


Vet are the oppressors. Idk why everyone complains about Faie (but Dr Astronomy Starhorn and Tyrant Argeon both run light Bender and Emp with much AOE, because I am hateful).

You can play a faie out of cards so easy and get away from all her infiltrate damage and spells (like Spirit). Meanwhile, two obelysks and Vet has board. And 10 cycles once you remove the opening two.

Most walls are not oppressive (gravity well, bonechill) and Faies BBS is annoying chip but rarely wins games from immense value (4 warbirds are 8 damage, but in the long game, not the game of immediate value, it matches value with Argeon, Zirix, Lilithe and Vaath).

Flawless Ghost combo is a real problem. Especially the fabled Gravity Ghost Flawless Spirit. More than luminious skorn, which has yet to outright kill me or deal all 11 damage, or just Ghost who can be sprited for 8.

Flawless with ghost takes no set up which makes cards the most egregious offenders (here in the sense of its a combo you technically shouldn’t be able to do nun one turn). Two gravity wells shouldn’t just get freely flawlessed into ghost Seraphims just because. But with ghost Seraphim existing as he does, flawless can’t be changed.

Flawless as a card concept is fine however. It reminds me of necrotic sphere. I believe I got it from a pack and its transformation ability is incredibly nice and very vanar. The ability to optimize any board into 8/9 instead of taking advantage of the biggest or weakest minion that stuck makes the flawless ghost combo broken, although neither piece is particularly overpowered.


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