My problems with the new expansion model


After the fiasco called Rise of the Bloodborn when I realized as a F2P player that spirit is essentially worthless since I can’t craft the new OP cards required to stay competitive, I left the game for 4 months in hopes something would change. I just heared today about Duelyst having a new expansion and eagerly reinstalled my client only to realize that it follows the same model as Bloodborn did. Why? Did the game suddenly became so popular that you do not need to care about the F2P players? What can I do with my spirit again if I have the cards and skins I want yet I am unable to use them to create the new ones? What if I am the kind of player who solely focuses on one faction and loves being competitive (was in the top 10 back in october) but now I am forced to open orbs which randomly give out cards I will never use? How does the game except to draw in new players when paywalls are getting erected each expansion now?

I remember when I first found Duelyst after quitting HS for a similar reason, I loved how generous the game was, it actually felt viable to grind your way to the top but then came the hidden orb nerf, then charging for previously free emoticons and now this.

I admit, I am actually surprised not seeing other complaint posts on the forum about this. I hated the “story” paywalls back in HS and it looks like Duelyst went down on that same path except without the pve content. Too bad.


It is f2p, I have got the entire bloodborne and most of acient bonds entirely via gold, if you are any good at gaunlet then it is easy to get the 3900 you need for the expansion. Of couse, if you are not playing then that would explain why you don’t have any gold saved up.


Considering it’s a lot less reliant on RNG and only 39 cards in size (both Rise and Bonds). I’m tempted to say it’s probably better for F2P players. As for it seeming like the cards are releasing faster than you can get them, that’s a natural effect that happens to every CCG, what differs is how the company handles it and since it isn’t the hugest problem yet, it’s probably not number 1 on their list of priorities.

@Ryvirath would you mind adding your thoughts here?


Fact is that there is not one single card in the game that cannot be acquired by 100% free to play means. Now whether or not this is a model to keep using is another debate but this game is 100% free to play.


I’m a totally F2P player and got all the cards that I needed just by playing a few times a day and completing all my daily quests. All that by just playing no more than a hour a day. Is not that hard, just play and that’s it.


True, edited the title

Basically my complain is: Spirit used to be a universal currency that allowed people like me to specialize and now it lost its value


I AGREE Sir how dare they charge us for some good or service who do they think they are some type of business. I know that feeling I 2 left after that Disgrace failer called rotbb ever since I’ve been hearing bad things about the game, people are saying it’s the worse… Let’s face it CP isnt winning anymore shadowverse is laughing at them. I thought ancient bonds would make duelyst great again but it didn’t. Even our president mentioned how bad duelyst was after he talked about how our “former” President spies on people thru thier microwave radios.

What do they expect me as a free player to do stay and play the game to aquire gold to buy this mess. I mean. I only ever play songhai… Just the best faction btw all the best spells minions the greatest. What do they expect me to try other fsctions nonsense I don’t know of what ccg means but it sure doesn’t mean try new stuff game… Cp you messed up again.


They said the next expansion would be bigger, probably that one can be crafted so you can get rid of your spirit. As for the ROTB/AB expansion model, honestly you can get the whole set with 1 month of doing daylies. Thats like the best thing you can do for f2p players and generally a really good model, yeah it sucks that you can’t craft anything, but given how easy it is to just get everything, who cares.


As of right now, unless you’re a player who has invested hundreds or thousands of dollars into the game, chances are that you don’t have the entirety of either the vanilla or Denizens of Shimzar card collection. Neither of the card collections are entirely dead in their usability in the current meta and so long as you play smart and tech cards accordingly, you can win.

In regards to your issue with the redundancy of spirit, if you’re really unable to devote the time and effort to save up gold (orbs are cool, I get it), then just use whatever Spirit you have lying around to craft the prismatic versions of your desired cards. It costs a ridiculously large amount of spirit to craft, but if you feel that a certain cards necessary to play the game and have a TON of spirit lying around then do it. At the end of the day, it’s YOUR spirit and it’s up to YOU to determine how you use it.

While the current model may seem dubious, as many have stated before me (@phayze & @improbableblob), the model is way better than any of the previous ones. At least with the ROTB/Ancient Bonds model you’re guaranteed to get the entire set so log as you can acquire 13 300 gold orbs. That’s only about 3900 gold to get the entire $20 set. With the denizens of Shimzar model, you can spend well over 3900 gold on orbs, but still not get the entire set (trust me, I paid for the 50 orb pre-expansion bundle and I still don’t have a copy of rawr or Alterrex). It’s way more friendly towards a F2P experience than the last model and, quite frankly, I’m a bit confused by why people seem so distressed over it. Plus, CP is in danger of losing money if people are abke to easily acquire the entire set this easily. The relatively low price may be beneficial though, idk.

I like the model, and that’s all there is to it :pensive:


How dare they give me extremely good value for my money? $20 for an entire expansion when it’d usually probably cost me double or triple in terms of money or time? This is an outrage! I ought to sue!

… Okay, putting the sarcasm aside. Oh well, you can’t craft the one card you want for your faction, that’s unfortunate. Yet this model is better for many, many more people.

I’m terrible at math (software engineer who’s bad at math… hah) but I think I can try:

1x Common = 40 Spirit, 1x Rare = 100 Spirit, 1x Epic = 350 Spirit, 1x Legendary = 900 Spirit

Spirit cost of Ancient Bonds cards per faction = (406) + (1003) + (3503) + (9003) = 4290 spirit

Spirit cost of all faction cards = 25740 spirit

Neutral cards = (403) + (10021) + (900*3) = 4920 spirit

Spirit cost of expansion = 30660 spirit

One core set orb is worth on average about 220 spirit, so to get enough spirit for the entire expansion you’d need to buy approx. 139 orbs. As you can probably tell, this would cost 13900 gold (as opposed to 3900) and way more cash than $20. I didn’t double check any of my math (probably why I’m bad at it!) so I could be wrong. I think this is pretty accurate, though.


To be fair, most people won’t want to get all the new cards, just the ones they want. For example: Abyssians would probably want to craft Variax, Furosa, Punish, and Crypto. That’s only 2700+300+120+120= 3240 Spirit which divided by 220 is about 15 for each individual copy, so * only * about 1500 gold.

So while I do agree that the distribution models are pretty good, the case could be made that locking a bunch of key cards behind maybe 3900 gold while also having to support your decks with other cards will be detrimental to newer players. Of course the converse is: It’s only 20 bucks bruv, support dem developers!

And still more, 1500 gold for only 4 cards in the entire 39 card set is a lot of gold if you wanted to get all the cards, so paying spirit would be a VERY bad investment in the long run if you wanted to branch out to other factions, so if the issue is F2P and New Player accessibility changing the system to allow for paying spirit wouldn’t help that much.

Seriously guys this distribution model is really generous, and if you still really hate it, 20 bucks isn’t that high an asking price for a full playset of 39 cards.

Frick, just realized I accounted for the 3x in the original calculations.


Hi, Mombamambo, your points are definitely valid.
We could have done a different distribution model, but we felt as though the negatives presented by this model (spirit being less useful, inability to get only very specific cards) was outweighed by the positives (much more overall f2p friendly outside of spirit crafting, guaranteed rates leaving less to chance, being able to set a more generous price point)
It definitely wasn’t the easiest decision, because we do recognize that the inability to craft single cards of the expansion can be really rough for some players compared to the consistency of the model.

With that said, I apologize if this has made you enjoy Duelyst a lot less, and the points raised are something we will definitely take into consideration going forward.


I have spent quite a few euros on this game, but I’m collecting Ancient Bonds as a F2P player and it does not look that bad. I can buy a new orb every 5 days approximately, even just by playing 4 matches per days. This looks fair to me, especially because I started saving gold one month ago.


I believe that it could be a good descision to make Ancient Bond card craftable in 3 copies and (optionally) with additional dust price but not disenchantable.
For expample 3 furosa’s would cost 180 dust to make and you cant disenchant them.

The disadvantage of this model is that you have to “buy” junky cards (for example life coil) just because they exist in the set and have no way to find any use for them. And the other disadvantage is that i personally had to buy 13 orbs to get my 1 copy of exelsious, which was one of the only cards i cared about.

But the advantage is that this system allows developers to release expansions more often,thus keepong players entartained.

Also Duelyst direly needs another ways to spend dust. Emotes are nice and all, but they are not quite what most people buy. Generals and battlemaps are amazing ideas, but they are reasonably expensive. I believe that making purchasable unit skins could do the trick (as well as require a bunch of additional work for CPG). But if this model will be the one to go for future, dust will become useless, a money of the past. Making it a vanity currence is a way to handle the issue.

And lets be real, prismatic cards dont catch our attention. I personally hardly ever notice when my opponenteven plays one.


I think you are on the right track and it is probably the best compromise.

P.S. I guarantee you would notice a prismatic serpenti. :wink:


I might… if anyone played it. I’m in diamond so it’s not likely.


I would wholehearthedly support this idea, I would not have a problem paying increased spirit for specific cards, it would solve all my problems with the current model.


Don’t know if it has been mentioned but you need to unlock the normal version of a card in RoTB and AB in order to craft its Prismatic version.


Exactly my point…


Astral phasing serpenti is the best feeling