Pretty much the title, I played alot of hearthstone and knowing at what health Im safe really helps in knowing how to play a specific game. I started this game not too long ago so Im not aware of the opponent’s reach most of the time, so I either end up playing so safe that I cant close the game or too aggressive and I end up dying before being able to kill him. The amount of card required to execute the combo would be nice aswell! tyvm
Why do I get the feeling this is gonna be a delet hai thread?
Starhorn can OTK a lot of the time but at 7 mana they can deal 9 damage with tectonic spikes + decimus.
Vanar doesn’t really have a lot of out of hand burst and the decks that do aren’t played so no need to worry.
Lyonar doesn’t have much out of hand burst outside of Holy Immo.
Songhai can do around 10 in aggro if it’s the late game but Baconator and Mantra can do 16-24 easily.
Abyssian requires boards to deal lots of damage out of hand.
Unless they’re playing Sajj who is already meh Vetruvian don’t have out of hand burst.
Most of these require entire hands so there isn’t much to worry about. Just don’t dip below 13 health against Starhorn in the lategame.
Mantra and Baconator require entire hands but they’re very consistent so you just rush them down.
Actually Mantra can go full OTK with god hand and enough Abjudicators played.
Same for backstab ArtiHai.
the amount of burst that each faction can do is way higher than you will see in most games, as an example magmar can do infinte damage (or as much as the turn timer will allow) if they have 3 kujatas out equip twin fang and then cast sand burrower infinitely. in general most factions do around 10-15 points of burst damage, but it is usually much less than that.
vetruvian can do as much damage as they have mana.
songhai can do damage equal to 3x the cards they have in hand.
lyonar’s biggest bursts come in the form of heal combos for ziran and tiger+roar+immo for argeon, both tend to be around 10 damage.
abyssian can rarely get more than 10 burst in aggro decks, but most of that will also heal them.
in magmar starhorn can do 9 damage on 7 mana with decimus+tectonic spikes, increasing to 13 on 9 mana with an entropic gaze, watch out for flash here as the burst can come out much sooner and flash+decimus+double tectonic spikes is 18 damage, ragnora can do 10 damage for 6 mana with bbs+eggmorph+greater fortitude increasing by 4 for every extra fortitude/primus fist/primorial gazer, vaath can do a lot of damge with drogon+cryptographer combos so just stay away from him in teh lategame.
vanar tends to max out at luminious charge+blistering skorn for 11 damage at 9 mana, but they are very good at chipping away at your health.
all factions can otk if they want to though, so only takes these numbers as a rough estimate of what is likely to happen.
This isn’t played much. A better example would be BBS + Worloc spam.
this is just what I remember from playing against some faie decks a while ago, I haven’t seen faie in a while tbh
Nobody really plays Vaanar anymore really, if you see Vanar just expect Wake + Age.
Vanar also can do some shenanigans with Ghost Seraphm plus Spirit of the Wild (at least 8 damage burst for 7 mana), but i don’t know how common that is being ran atm
Although nobody plays SnowHai it’s still correct to remove as many walls as you can if they surround you as you don’t want to take 24 from Seraphim + Reflection.
highest possible 1 card out of hand damage is 45 damage obliterate from literally the entire board filling with creep
but that will never happen without consent or disconnections
highest 2 card out of hand damage is literally the same situation, but using 2 ghost azaleas instead
Thank you for your answer! This is pretty much exactly what I was looking for, not necessairly the best dream-case scenario but more what to expect when playing against certain faction/specific decks. For exemple I had no idea I could get bursted by that much from starhorn (Like I said Im a new player). Thank you!
To me nothing is worse than flas+decimus+double spikes. 18 damage with no set up and 4 cards, with spikes that refill your hand. I hate that combo so much
Hand refill is rarely relevant though. Usually it’s a finisher.
If you count the previous board state, I would say a Cryptographer on infinite attack general with a board full of drogons doubles you’re attack, giving you infinite more damage.
If I understand your post correctly, you’re trying to assess at what point it’s safe to play a threat without answering an opponent’s threat and still maintain a satisfactory health total to survive and continue to vie for board state.
If that’s correct, the answer is a little different for each faction and archetype, but I will point out that Duelyst isn’t really a game where you can allow things to exist without being answered. The game tends to end when something lives on the board for more than a turn. Also, because Duelyst has attempted to steer its focus toward being a fast, bite-sized ccg, CPG has printed an enormous amount of instant value, out of hand damage
That said, here’s a basic overview of burst damage:
Lyonar has access to some pretty insane buff/burst spells, and can pull some pretty frustrating AoE damage out of left field.
If they have a high-health value creature that has been left in play, it can be Divine Bonded and you can be in for 20+ damage out of nowhere.
If you’re up against something like Healnar, then they might be able to use heal combos to do traumatic damage to your face and board. Sunriser can end games on its own in this way.
If you’re meticulous about clearing the board, and the Lyonar player has nothing in play, the most they can do to you out of hand could be:
Flameblood Warlock + Sundrop Exlixir + Lucent Beam + Lucent Beam + Lucent Beam + Face Attack
Flameblood Warlock + Flameblood Warlock + Flameblood Warlock + Tempest + Bloodtear Alchemist + Face Attack
Songhai damage output is difficult to predict because it varies wildly from deck to deck.
Many decks run Abjudicator which reduces the cost of spells, as well as several cards that buff the effectiveness of the spells they play.
Songhai players cannot be allowed to keep creatures in play, as they have incredible Arcanyst synergy and some of the best creature buffing spells in the game.
Additionally, thanks to Zendo, they can bleed their turns into your turns which makes things super tricky.
With Songhai, the only safe health total is full, and even then you can probably get wiped out with the right combination of cards.
It’s just a matter of mitigating their damage with gradual healing and killing them before they can gather the resources they need to immolate you.
Vetruvian is very creature reliant for burst damage, but wind dervishes come equipped with rush.
I think the most they could do out of hand with nothing in play is around ~13, but it can be done in several ways, and is contextual with your position on the board as it relates to other minions.
You’ll get worn down if you’re not careful, but generally staying above the halfway mark will keep you from getting knocked out by burst damage from Vetruvian
As a side note, Sajj violates this rule, and can kill you at any time with the right combination of cards.
Abyssian does the most damage by swarming and utilizing Chakram/Dying Wish, but the faction has a fair amount of uninteractive damage in terms of the +5 attack buff and Void Pulse
In a game with no creep where you’ve been meticulously clearing the board of everything through some kind of miracle:
Flameblood Warlock + Flameblood Warlock + Flameblood Warlock + Void Pulse + Void Pulse + Void Pulse + Face Attack
If you have a creature she can kill next to you, the Void Pulses can be replaced with Grasps of Agony for a total of 18 damage.
There are some combos with Chakram that can do more based on context with Revenant, but you don’t see many of those
This faction is often the center of ire for the community because their burst damage can often feel un-interactive and insane.
The magic number for Starhorn is 11, don’t be at 11 ever, because then you can get deci-spiked and punched in the mouth.
The magic number for Ragnora is 12 because he can hatch a ripper, Fortitude it, and punch you in the mouth
The magic number for Vaath is any health total in melee range. Drogon stacks and Vaath loves attack buffs. Unlike the other 2, he has a hard time bursting you if he can’t reach you, but anything in arm’s reach might as well be a pinata.
Vanar has access to some incredible out of hand damage, but it’s also kind of janky. Without board presence, everything is reliant on your positioning.
Notable health values are
13 for the skorn + luminous + face attack combination
10 for the big spooky arcanyst + breath of the wild + face attack combination
any health value standing in the middle column (Fissure is a hell of a drug)
All in all, every faction has a ton of burst damage, and there’s not really a ‘safe’ health total for anyone as you roll into the late game. That’s why so much of the meta is focused on mid-range value creatures and burn damage.
I hope that helps you in some capacity. I know from playing Hearthstone (FOREVER ago) that it was much easier to stall games, mitigate damage, and trust that you’d be able to stay alive, but that isn’t the current state of Duelyst, and it’s hard to be safe.
You are correct this is pretty much what I meant, depending on who Im playing against and my health total, knowing the amount of damage they can dish out helps me to know if I should go ‘‘All-in’’ or play for a more board-control game. From what Ive read so far most combos requires alot of card in hand to work, which sounds ridiculous to play around in my opinion. Unless you are so far ahead that you can afford to play around it. I havent experienced any of the combos you guys are talking about, I guess its because Im still not in the highest of ranks (11 now I believe). But definitely something Ill keep in mind is the 2 cards combo (Like Vanar’s and starhorn’s most importantly, as other classes rely heavily on the board state to figure out how much damage they can deal.) Thank you for your answer!
You’re very welcome!
Yeah everything I listed required a ton of cards, but that’s accessible to Lyonar due to Fealty and Trinity Oath, so never forget that they have cheap, hard hitting burn.
Starhorn is the major one to be afraid of for burst damage, since he punishes you for drawing cards and has so much access to cards that force both players to draw. That means he’s drawing into more burn while still hurting you.
Also, since you’re fairly new, I will warn you about the Vetruvian Thunderhorn combo. There’s a card that gives a creature blast but prevents it from moving (Kinematic Projection). Thunderhorn deals the damage it deals to each enemy connected to the enemy it hits.
That ability stacks.
So for things in a row, Thunderhorn will deal 4 damage to each, and 4 damage to eachother for each thing starhorn hit. If you’re in or connected to that pile of creatures, you take 4(X) damage where X is the number of allies in the attacked row
That is not a fun way to lose.
In game my name is ThongBonerstorm, so if you ever have any questions or want to test things out, just add me!