Minions stats thought

[feelsgoodman]

I’m thinking about what rule/equation can define the best minion related to his attack/defence.

First thought:
For instance I will say that 2/3 (healing mystic) better than 1/4 (Hazure herald) intuitively or 3/3 is better than 4/2. Of course others features have to be taken in account like Charge or ranged etc. But I want to understand what parameters affect those stats.

Maybe there is a too much things to consider and it’s maybe an irrelevant thread. But to my mind there is several main parameters and others negligible.

Here I try to put important parameters:

1. The early/mid deal 1 damage (bloodtear alchemyst, Blistering Skorn)
2. General 2 attack
3. The class early removal (martyrdom, phoenix fire, falicus, Natural selection ,…)
4. The meta trend (agressive or control)
5. basic common features (ranged, charge, provoke, frenzy)
6. TBD …

Now I will try to analyse further each point segregated.

Analysis:

1. TBD
2. This parameter allows me to say that a 3/3 is potentially a 6 damage to general or 3 damage and one early removal or a mid removal. So it’s way better than a 4/2 which is a 4 damage to general or mid removal.
3. TBD
4. TBD
5. Obvious thought :

• 3/2 ranged is better than a 2/3
• 4/1 charge better than 3/2
• provoke 1/4 better than 2/3 than others i / j with i+j = 5

I would like some help to complete and revise those thought.

Sorry for my fluent frenglish.

[paralykeet]

To be honest,in Duelyst body sizes tend to be far less important than in games like Hearthstone, similar to MtG. In HS, for example- trading with opponent material, using your own material is the one of the only ways to really interact with the opponent. In Duelyst, a player uses positioning to protect units or threaten the opponent’s.

Which isn’t to say that bodies are irrelevant in the least, but in terms of actual effect on the game- Duelyst is much more laser focused on “spells with legs.” Players have a habit of conflating the size:cost ratio far too much with the actual power level of a card, where that tends to matter in very specific corner cases; such as Silithar Veteran.

The curious case of Silithar Veteran is that large bodies combine just a little too well with Rebirth. In it’s previous incarnation, it too easily invalidated 3 and 4 drops by simply being bigger and more resilient. In contrast to a card like Kron or Lantern Fox, who also recieved health nerfs. Kron simply outclassed Primus Shieldmaster (which is a card played for it’s keyword and size combination.) Lantern Fox has an ability that combines well with a higher health pool- and while the body on it’s own wasn’t even oppressive with the body size, the number of ways for it to become enabled over the course of a game reached a critical mass that required it to be just a little worse naked in terms of raw value.

Silithar Veteran hit the point on a bell curve with it’s body and ability combo, similar to that of Kron, Lantern Fox and Taygette- but solely in the “prime beatstick” status (MtG players may recognize this as the Tarmogoyf or Knight of the Reliquary effect.) Where the “spell on legs” effect of Kron, LF, and Taygette was simply exacerbated by great size:cost ratios.

In this way, it makes it easier to understand why a card like Sun Seer isn’t a 2/5- it isn’t arbitrary for the EV of a card to be too high because one of it’s numbers is too juicy, but a 5 health Sun Seer wouldn’t also dominate or disturb the game balance, even though it becomes strictly better- because the effect is marginal (a space where something’s power level could be raised without adverse effect on the overall game.) Where a minion like Sojourner with a 6th point of health, might become simply too good (though it should be noted, that Taygette and Fox have damage triggers, not combat triggers like Sojourner, Sun Seer, Purgatos and co.)

[feelsgoodman]

Finally what you mean is that to build a deck each card is chosen by its specific effect rather than its body except when the ability relies on his body (lantern fox). I guess you right. But since several patch I noticed that nerf only affected body or cost. Like those you mentionned. But yeah the value of a card is too specific in this game.