Miguel's Abyss deck and discussion space


#482

Swarm in general is a lot better than people give it credit for and aside from some very good draws on the wanderer player’s part is actually favored in that matchup.


#483

Here are my current rough drafts:


http://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTozMDEsMzozMzEsMzoyMDI3MiwzOjExMDg4LDM6MjAwNDksMzozMTcsMzozMjgsMzoxMTEyNSwzOjIwMDU3LDM6MjAwODksMzoyMDA3MiwzOjMwMDUxLDM6MzAwMzksMzoyMDIyNw==


http://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTozMDEsMzoxOTA1MiwzOjMzMSwzOjIwMjcyLDM6MTEwODgsMzoyMDA0OSwzOjMxNywzOjExMTI1LDM6MjAwNTcsMzozMDAwMiwzOjM0MSwzOjMwMDUxLDM6MzAwMzksMzoyMDIyNw==

Reva and Rag are just hard on them in general as the decks have a tough time dealing with lots of small back-line threats. I have been seriously considering breath of the unborn as an egg/heartseeker clearing option despite being so underwhelming. Tempo Ziran is the natural hard counter she usually is to this style of deck I don’t think there is much to do about that one unfortunately. The meta is certainly not kind to our goals.

Baron variant is particularly vulnerable to aggro as it lacks even desolators healing option or the early game ender of grimwar. The grimwar variant is particularly vulnerable to artifact hate, I have been considering trading grimwar for a non artifact option but then the deck may be left to vulnerable to AOE.

With the very limited amount of testing I have done they both feel very average due to lacking the speed of hyperswarm but suffering the same weaknesses, and not truly having a proper lategame which even if it did competing with fault and the like does not look promising. Luckily both do ok versus excess AOE as Necrotic is a good stabilizer/anti wanderer tech, the baron variant just needing a single wraith to do well, or grimwar punishing board wipes. But aoe is still tough as usual.

Main things I am still trying to figure out right now are getting the decks not to fold to burn and to be able to deal with numerous backline units. The usual go to neutral healing minions are taken up by wraith cards and healing wont protect the artifacts anyways. Breath is an option, skorn is not really one, there is thankfully room for bloodtear in the grimwar variant but it only goes so far.


Echoing shriek MIGHT even be an option, but its even worse then breath.

Currently thinking of trading chakram in the grimwar variant for breath, and wraith swarm in baron for breath.


#484


http://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTozNTUsMzoyMDA1OSwzOjIwMzc2LDM6MTEwODQsMzoxOTA1MCwzOjEwMDIwLDM6MzQ0LDI6MzM0LDM6MjAwNTcsMzoxOTA0NSwyOjM0OCwyOjM0MSwzOjIwMDYxLDI6MzIyLDI6MjAzNzMsMjoxMTEzNg==

This is my life now. This is who i am. I am you, but better.


#485

As hard as it is for me to disagree with you, I must say…

You’re doing it wrong, imao!

After this categorical statement designed to show my degree of disagreement, I must provide some argumentation.

Your Baronette version is not far from regular hyperswarm, but slower. That makes it weak. You dilute your hand by not being faithful to any one of the plans: having big swarm to cash in (Chakram) or comboing with Baronette (Fury). Also you employ Ritual Banishing which wastes your swarm.

Wasting your swarm is pretty OK in Baronette since you ideally need only one wraithling to make insane damage, but Banishing can be used only as removal, thus is not versatile. It removes backline threats, yeah, but it is “not lose” card instead of “win” card.

Necrotic, while being slow, is pretty OK in my eyes, since it’s a huge tempo swing if used correctly, it could be useful.

Chakram can’t be used with Baronette before 8 mana, and in my eyes while being generally good card shouldn’t be used in Baronette deck.

I think Baronette should be used in a dedicated combo deck. Yeah, some removal is needed, and I’m thinking of removing both Priestess in favor of Breaths in my version, but the winning combo itself must be quick and consistent. That’s why I use 3 different buffs and Abjudicator. If the opponent is not playing plasma and the player himself is not an idiot (I am today, btw, lots of missplays :sweat_smile: ) that guarantees kill at 7 mana.

Even if you don’t find Baronette you can just spam Abjudicated buffs and I have plenty of them.

That’s what I think.


#486

I find Chakram to be strictly better then various buffs like Void or Reflection. Its not intended to be used on the same turn as Baron although that is an option, but on the turn prior as its a perfect curve from five to six where Barons natural combos happen. Chakram is also just a good stand alone card/back up win con where as the others tend to only be good with Baron which is just not consistent enough for my tastes. Six mana is plenty fast if I really wanted to go for stuff faster then that then I think hyper swarm is where you want to be. I am making a midrange deck that looks to either win around six mana or just be able to out value your opponent.

Where the deck struggles is when its field is getting cleared or with backline threats which are both frequent things, so trying to use buffs as removal I do not like as its just not reliable. Having spot removal to clear the way for a combo is also important, plus just not having answers to backline threats or provokes just seems unwise in general. I think the deck has plenty of ways to win as it is, it needs “not loose” stuff and not win more.

I see the appeal of the dedicated abjucator variant, I have tried it in the past, its lots of fun but I found it far to reliant on the combo which has so many moving parts I did not find it consistent. You need to get wraiths to stick AND be in range, they need to not be body blocked or provoked, and then you also need a 2-4 card combo with the minimum of baron/three mana buff upwards of needing abjucator and additional buffs, and often that’s not quite enough to win as you hit them for like 75% of their life and then you have run out of steam and cant quite get the win.


Now perhaps I am underestimating the ability to just spam buffs, but in my history with the game I have never found that to be a particularly effective tactic. I am also not trying to discourage you from going for in all in combo approach because it sure is hell a fun, but I have my doubts it can be truly competitive.

I am trying to make a competitive midrange deck which may be a fools folly as it might just not be practical so the all in approach may just be better anyways. But I have hopes. Currently enjoying my breath variant of the Baron version quite a bit.


#487

Breath has actually turned out to be really good. Not only does it clear seekers/eggs/walls/swarm but because we are rocking thick and juicy wraiths the healing has actually been quite relevant.


http://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTozMDEsMzozMzEsMzoyMDI3MiwzOjExMDg4LDM6MjAwNDksMzozMTcsMzozMjgsMzoxMTEyNSwzOjIwMDU3LDM6MjAwODksMzoyMDEzMSwzOjMwMDUxLDM6MzAwMzksMzoyMDIyNw==


http://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTozMDEsMzoxOTA1MiwzOjMzMSwzOjIwMjcyLDM6MTEwODgsMzoyMDA0OSwzOjMxNywzOjExMTI1LDM6MjAwNTcsMzozMDAwMiwzOjIwMTMxLDM6MzQxLDM6MzAwNTEsMzozMDAzOQ==

Both decks are coming along nicely. They can keep pace with aggro, they have been built in ways they do not fold to AOE, they aoe fault decks away, and they are surprisingly good at out-valuing wanderer.

Tempo Ziran still seems like a lost cause, but other then that they have been performing pretty well. Luminous based Faie decks are also pretty tough on us, but are beatable.


Any improvements to your dedicated combo variant?


#488

Today I had no success with the deck, tbh. I did also insert Breath there, but still need more testing.

Really today I’m the worst pilot possible. But I did beat a couple of tempo Zir’ans yesterday, one of which was from powentekissa or what’s his name?

How is sphere working for you?


#489

I am quite surprised that you were beating Tempo Zirans. Particularly Pow. He and Key are the best Ziran players I know of. I would love to see those replays. I suspect your deck just has some incredible highroll potential, but in the same vein it likely can brick pretty hard to and thus the discrepancy in your success.

Necrotic Sphere has been meh, people seem to play around it often enough, but it has gotten me out of tight spots often enough that I am keeping it for the baron variant as its a perfect come back tool that generates win cons. But as you may have noticed it was cut from the grimwar version.

Deck will still likely not be top tier, but I am happy its at least reaching a competitive state.


#490

It could be true.


#491

I was thinking of making use of Rite. Any Rite, actually, but I do of course prioritize the one that steals :slight_smile:

I thought I need:

  1. Lots of cheap stuff to empty my hand.
  2. Abju and DFS to play Rite earlier and not waste my whole turn on it.
  3. Chakram cause it’s awesome with pretty anything.

That’s what I play.

[steal Lil]MTozMDEsMzozMTcsMjozMzMsMjozNDQsMzozNjMsMzoxMTAyMiwzOjExMDM5LDM6MTkwNTIsMzoyMDA0OSwzOjIwMDU5LDM6MjAyNzIsMzoyMDM3MywzOjIwMzc2LDI6MzAwMDIsMzozMDAzOQ==


It doesn’t work. No, I manage to play Rite, and even some enemy minions, but I lose. Any thoughts?

Edit. So, in depth guide to my reasoning.

Chakram and cheap minions to empty hand? Then I’ll play swarm. Inkling and Dreamgazer help in finding Rite early. Then I should probably add some early swarm threat - so Grimwar.

Variax is nice in the sense that it’s inevitable 1-card wincon which doesn’t require any specific synergy or board state. Plan B. I do also use DFS, so it’s probably worth a try.

Conversion and Sentinel are pretty cheap and fit steal theme.

Gibbet is Gibbet and Lure is Lure.

I’m low on removal, but I probably draw it from the opponent’s deck.

That’s all.

Also, what I think, I’m in low gold, so pretty often my opponent’s deck is even worse than mine. Maybe it’s also a reason for some of my losses :slight_smile:


#492

The thing i see in your setup is that you’re just stealing for the sake of stealing, not with a purpose. You don’t seem to be having a clear reason for stealing enemy cards besides being trolly and cruel, which is generally a bad move if you’re thinking something in the lines of Rite on curve.

I suggest rethinking it in a sacrifice deck with either Maehv or Cassyva, where you’re grabbing your foe’s goodies for the major purpose of grinding it as cheap/empowered fodder for your spells and tools.


#493

I tried actually an Unleash deck with Abjudicator recently, pretty much the same results. Afaik the only steal cards really worth playing are Tormentor, Conversion and Rot9m.


#494

Well, that’s an idea. What can I build around opponent’s deck?

Hm? I don’t quite get it. How can I use what I don’t know in advance? Chakram seems to be the major way for me.


#495

Hmm this isn’t most certainly what you thought but you just accidentally gave me a decent deck idea to test :slight_smile: (I tend to keep things secret before publishing them, so unfortunately you won’t be hearing from it fora while).


#496

It’s a bit of full madness, but really take a look at my Maehv deck up there to properly sink in:

The only thing i am assured is that i’ll be able to steal creatures, so what do i do? I set myself to burn them. A cheap creature is something i can quickly smelt into a Husk or bend into Darkfire/Banishing fodder, a big creature (or something amped by Conversion) is something i will gladly toss for Reliquarian or, if i was running a Cassy setup, aim a Corporeal Cadence at. If i luck out and grab me some cheap/free Rush, i will try my best at smearing that Horror Burster at it.
What it is doesn’t matter, it will be better than anything in my deck and i’m hard set to transform anything that i can grab into ammo for the meat cannon. Details are figured out mid-combat.


#497

Spealing of my deck, switching Variax to Rev did actually make it at least playable. Also switched Grimwar to Banishing.

I just want the opponent to be pissed off by playing against his own deck and frenzy Rev, nothing more. Actually, I like playing it now, every game is a new deck :slight_smile:


#498

I’ve got an idea. Why just stealing when you can burn his/her deck as well, right?
Considered adding Mnemovore into the mix.


#499

So to show what I was kinda teasing earlier in the week. I made an Infest deck, which I also used for Meltdown league this week. I did also use this deck on ranked and did go 8-0 at the start of the season but didn’t keep going on when I had seemingly good matchups. So in the end went 12-3 with it on ranked (in Silver at the start of the season). Also went 1-1 in League with it (3rd opponent forfeited due to being busy and limited time).

Basically, the deck tries to punish minion based decks by using spells to spread damage through Infest and Grasp, while also punishing defensive minion plays around the general with Betrayal. BBS, Punish and Munch are used mostly as removal, although Munch also acts as a bit of a heal. Lure and Recombobulus are there to re-position enemy minions into being more advantageous setups or pay-offs for Grasp and Infest. Mentor, Xerroloth and Spelljammer are there to help keep your hand full, while Reaper is a good threat by itself and can help clear back line minions with its flying. Ooz is just a solid 2 drop minion and generates a bit of creep for Munch to work off of. Mystic is just there because I needed a 2 drop and its just a solid choice.


#500

Wow, that’s original!

Reminds me of

But much more refined


#501

I don’t know if my deck is refined at all or if I’m just making myself sound smart in the other post. But I made the deck because I had some spare spirit around and wanted to make a fun deck. Saw Infest and decided to make a deck around it and about 5 mins later its what I came up with. The deck probably can be made better but usually once I see something I want to make a deck around, I make one draft of it and then see if the initial draft is any good or be made better, then remake it. Then stick with what I’ve made. Or I throw it away because the initial draft seems too bad to work.