Mechanics in other CCGs that are absent in Duelyst


#1

I was thinking, Duelyst has a lot of unique CCG mechanics including a board, minion-like generals, tile effects (shadow creep, mana tile), positioning effects (blast, backstab), and AI (battle pets, Zendo). However, Duelyst lacks some tried and true mechanics that are mainstays of games such as MTG and Hearthstone. Here are some of these mechanics that might be introduced to Duelyst.


Modal (Choose One) effects
These effects allow the player to choose between two of more options upon play. Examples include choose X in MTG (the cards lists many different effects and you can trigger X of them) and discover from Hearthstone (you are presented with 3 cards. You can choose 1 of them to add to your hand). These effects often sacrifice tempo for versitility, having the card cost more to trigger an ability but be relevant in more situations. The closest that Duelyst has gotten to this are Thumping wave and the +X/-X Lyonar spells, which, while relevant in multiple situations, always provide the same effect.

Personally, I would love to see this type of card in Duelyst since they add more decisions and options without resorting to too much RNG


Multifaction cards
These are cards that can only be played in two or more specific factions. Examples include Multicoloured cards in MTG and Triple Class cards in Hearthstone. In MTG’s case these cards are generally above curve due to a more specific mana requirement while in Hearthstone, they are around the power level or regular class cards, since mana is uniform in that game. These cards promote cross faction synergy, which can make the game deeper, but harder to balance.

I don’t see these cards being added to Duelyst in the near future since separate classes are already ingrained into the game. If they were to introduce them, it would probably feel like a card-specific feature, like in Hearthstone, instead of something game defining, like in MTG.


Activated Abilities
These are cards that have some ability that can be activated just be interacting with the card itself. These abilities might require paying mana or exhausting a minion to trigger. Think of this as Bloodborn spells for minions. Whenever a minion with an activated ability in on the board, you have access to their Bloodborn spell. Activated abilities have been a mainstay in MTG, usually in the form of “tap” abilities. Hearthstone does not have these abilities, however.

I think that these abilities are extremely likely to be in Duelyst. The next expansion has something to do with Bloodborn spells and the lore (keliano’s ciphertext) hints at a race of “partial bloodborns.” Maybe, activated abilities are the focus of the next set.


Playing on the Opponent’s Turn
These cards have effects that trigger on your opponent’s turn. MTG has a whole class of cards, instants, that can be played in the middle of your opponent’s turn and Hearthstone has Secrets which, while played on your own turn, may trigger on your opponent’s. These cards work by reacting to or anticipating your opponent’s actions.

I don’t think that Duelyst will introduce anything like MTG’s instants, since that would fundamentally alter the game. Things like Hearthstone’s secrets, however, could be a possibility. Furthermore, Duelyst can have even more ways to influence your opponent’s turn with tile traps or abilities that trigger when destroyed on your opponent’s turn.


Others that may require too many interface changes or fundamentally alter the game

  • Hand disruption (I can see one or two spells with this, but not a recurring theme) (we have Sphynx)
  • Deck searching (too much interface changes) (cards that fetch specific card types are close enough)

#2

Modal (Choose One) effects - I guess this would be neat, even though I’m not a particular fan of the mechanic and I don’t find it overly interesting. What I do like about it is some of it’s flavor, for example going balls deep and Uprooting Ancient of War in HS.

Multifaction cards - Same, I don’t see the need for them to exist in a game where there are already factions and neutral cards. I don’t even know why HS team decided to put them in their game. It’s just makes things complicated and and I fail to see how it improves the current system.

Activated Abilities - these sound good, even though I’d like to see some real examples of said cards to get the better understanding of them and as such see how would they fit duelyst.

Playing on the Opponent’s Turn - I agree with you here. Secrets and similar triggers that only happen on your opponents turn is the furthest the game can go in that regard. But that being said, fuck secrets. If CPG decides to implement something like this it better not be fucking secrets. It’s such an awful and infuriating game mechanic which is more than often about guessing than about being skilled and playing around it.

Hand disruption - I’m okay with this, as long as it’s not something stupid like removing cards from the enemy hand, basically 90% of this thread.

I don’t have lots of mechanics which I would like to see, but one of them is controlled discard mechanic which applies only to your own action bar. I like mechanics that have some kind of drawback in general. Maybe a mechanic where you pay life in addition to minion’s mana cost in order to play minions with certain stats earlier than one normally would, I’m sure it’s been done before.


#3

They sound like cool ideas except for secrets and cross faction cards. I find playing around secrets in hearthstone like playing rock, paper, scissors. You can anticipate everything but you cannot play around all of it. Either you trigger this or that. Remember secret Paladin? Mad scientist? Those cards are ridiculous.

As for cross faction cards, it is a neat concept but requires a lot of forethought and is very very hard to balance; the line between it being balanced and viable or completely unplayable is very fine. And at Duelyst’s current state and decisions when it comes to faction/ card balancing? Im sorry to say Im very doubtful in their abilities to implement such cards. And the fact that they’re deliberately trying to make the game faster or allowing it to be due to the fact that they are trying to branch out to the mobile platform, Im worried if these cards exists, the game will be even more fast, snowballing gets worse and further worsen the balancing in this game.

Choose one, modal effects are cool. Tbh I myself feel that thumping wave is too good for 3, versatile cards should be pricier. But I’ve tried asking around and see people saying it really is extremely good now and might be unplayable if it gets tampered with. So, it is kinda subjective. But the concept is fun, coming from hearthstone. You are able to save some card slots due to having 2 abilities in one card.

I think activated abilities are coming in the next expansion. I guess bloodbond is considered one form or another of it. I do look forward to it, I just dont hope the meta gets more fast and snowball-ish than it already is atm.


#4

I don’t recall how it’s called in MtG, but one missing mechanic is a sort of “overflow” for damage. In Duelyst, it could sound like this:

Overflow: whenever this minion destroys a minion, deals the spare damage to a random nearby minion.

Assume you have a minion with 5 attack and you target a minion with 2 health, the 3 spare damage is done to a nerby target (chosen randomly).


#5

Do you mean Trample?
“An attacker with trample can deal excess damage to the defending player or planeswalker even if it is blocked.” - MTG Salvation

That would be awesome on Makantor Jesus!


#6

Yes, exactly :slight_smile: I was not sure about the English name.

Also, another cool mechanic could be:

First strike: whenever this minions kills an enemy, it does not get counterattacked.


#7

Here’s one:

Wither: Damage is dealt as -X/-X.


#8

The multifaction I think is cool thing for example Vet and Abyss have a common lore background and they have also dying wish style cards to level where both have nether summoning and corpse combustion which basically the same thing.They can’t find syngery like for everything faction but couple cards that you can play in two factions isn’t a big imo.

I like

Abyss/Vet
Vanar/Lyonar
Magmar/Songhai

What would I add

Well quite clearly the “discovery” mechanic is one the best thing to hit HS and duelyst should swipe it.It is amazing way to add randomness to a game while it still being skillful some what.


#9

Can’t say I’d want to see multifaction cards in Duelyst. The factions are distinct enough that any unit that’d be willing to work for two should just stay a neutral. In Hearthstone you’re playing classes, not a nation with it’s own identity and lore.


#10

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to want to be able to name a specific card and then look through your deck and discard every single instance of that card from your hand and deck.

I also think it’s perfectly reasonable for people to hand me money in the streets and to ride a unicorn but that’s not very relevant, I want my pie, and I want it in the sky.


#11

Multi-faction cards could be interesting, but probably unnecessary. I actually made some for fun last month in the fan card design hub that looked into this design space.


#12

If you force me to ally with the faction that i despise playing against the most i am gonna quit.


#13

Anyone else want Hearthstone’s Joust mechanic?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Me neither.


#14

I like the idea of joust, rewarding you for putting big heavy minions in the deck, but the execution was so bad- if you lose the joust the card is worse than bad and if you win it’s just slightly above average if not just plain average. A few cards like Elek and Healing Wave were decent because even if you lost you still got a decent body or a decent heal, but beyond that…


#15

I actually think multifaction cards are pretty cool. In a class system like Duelyst/Heartstone you can’t really play with mechanics from other factions the way you can in color mixing systems so I think multifaction cards have the chance to add a lot.

I find it interesting that Eternal went almost the opposite with dispel effects compared to hearhstone and duelyst. In Eternal dispel does not remove any stat buffs. In fact, returning cards to your hand or putting them in the graveyard (another interactable that doesn’t exist in duelyst) doesn’t invalidate card text or stat buffs/debuffs (so if a card of yours is lowered to 0 HP and you replay it from the graveyard it just dies again).

Duelyst is also missing:
Armor or some other way to increase your maximum HP
1 turn untargetability (stealth)
Any way to shuffle cards into a deck or onto the top of a deck
Any way to see what’s in your opponent’s hand or on the top of her deck.
The “echo” keyword from eternal (although just copying it over would cause a hand size problem in duelyst).
activated abilities, repeatable so long as you have the mana, or only once each turn, or one-time only. There’s a lot of room for interesting design space here and all we have are opening gambits.


#16

A mechanic i dont see anyone mentioning is “damage over time”, like poison or burn in Pokemon.

Personally i wouldn’t like secrets to come up, they are so annoying and also kind of disrupt the overall playstyle: instead of focusing on making better moves to strategically win a match, you are just forcing your opponent to do suboptimal moves to play around the secrets.
One of the reasons i left HS was prescisely “secret paladin”

mmmm lore wise, i dont think “multifaction” cards are viable, and we have neutrals already so …

I wouldnt mind hand disruption if it is your OWN hand the one being disrupted.


#17

I think multi faction cards could work, but they wouldn’t really be multi-faction, but two cards that are very closely related effect and lore-wise. For example you could have highwind loyalists in Lyonar with highwind traitors in songhai. They would have similar effects, stats, and sprites, but different color schemes. Just make their abilities activate with each factions respective keyword.

And @raqyee , the effect of paying life instead of mana is literally just flash reincarnation. And if you meant the generals life, that’s just elucidator.


#18

Yeah, cards like Elu is what I’m talking about. I’d like to see it as an actual mechanic rather than as a one of card.


#19

Well you have killing edge and afterblaze for example.


#20

the modal and multi class effect is already in the game in the form of the replace mechanic and spell copying - activated abilities is in the game in the form of board position such as blast or vet’s dominate

playing on the opponent’s turn is a good mechanic when you are playing with people you know personally - but not good for playing against nameless faceless people online imo - as an example just imagine an episode of yu-gi-oh where the two players where sitting at their computer screens in a quiet little room rather than standing face to face in a football stadium or wherever