Duelyst Forums

Mana vortex seeing play?

#1

So, after the nerf to mana vortex it has barely seen play, but recently Iā€™m seeing it used on the ladder. I can think of a few reasons for this, but Iā€™m not sure why exactly.
1: Itā€™s being used for proccing arcanysts
2: Itā€™s used for surprise lethals (The fact this happened in a recent game is one of the reasons Iā€™m making this post)
3: Decks can now facilitate enough draw for the loss of card advantage not being a real downside
4: People on a budget may have space in their deck and be using it to fill up (Iā€™m only at rank 4 playing meme decks right now, so plenty of newish players are around)

What are your thoughts on this? Is there a reason Iā€™m seeing this that Iā€™m unaware of? Please comment :slight_smile:

#2

I believe that 8 gates combo deck is using it, at least thatā€™s the only occasion where i saw it used since the nerf. Arcanyst canā€™t afford that card loss from my experience. You might also see it in fun/meme builds, budget not so much as itā€™s a rare and i doubt anyone with limited budget would craft it.

#3

I think Mana Vortex is just a bad card. Maybe someone used it during a tournament or while streaming, just for fun or to test it, and a few guys copied the idea. I assume it will disappear from the ladder very soon (if present).

#4

I have actively used post nerf vortex in various variants of artifact reva lists. The card has a deckbuilding restriction but it facilitates maxing out on HE and 4winds magi, in slower, more control focused Songhai lists and is a big push for that type of style.

There are a lot of unexplored synergy that falls to the wayside because people simply refuse to be a little less rigid and more open-minded in their deck building.

But yes, I can see when I would include the card and how to squeeze value out of it and is definitely something Iā€™d like to go back to exploring after Iā€™m done optimizing these artifact lists as much as possible.

Brilliant ideas are simply stupid ones that worked.

6 Likes
#5

Good to know that a top player enjoys the card!

Do you mind commenting on why? It seems to me you are losing card advantage for a negligible effect.

#6

It doesnā€™t cost you card advantage if you play it with Blue Conjurer. Thatā€™s the best thing I can say about it.

#7

Songhai, especially slower control variants much like the one im using often find their spells to be overcosted or clunky on their curve. While it is true that Vortex, in a vacuum produces a net loss in terms of card advantage, it also counteracts that by functionally smoothening out and lowering your spell curve, a effect which when built around simply cannot be overstated,

Take a conventional approach to say a Spear based control list, now lets add in the traditional package of Twin Strike, Ghost Lightning, 4 winds, OBS, maybe a Cobra Strike or two. Already we start to see a problem here, these types of spells are not only situational but they often take up enough mana to the effect of using most of your resources for that turn but lets be a little bit creative here.

When tossing Vortex, a relatively inefficient card as discussed, in to the mix, interesting plays start becoming possible that previously were limiting deckbuilding. As p1 on t2 you can Vortex and Cobra to eat their 2 drop and push damage. On 5 mana you can OBS + Twin Strike to clear most boards without losing tempo. On 6/7 mana you start being able to use HE to draw turns earlier than you normally would have, and making far more powerful tempo plays and none of this takes into account what sort of deck youā€™re playing in terms of support card.

4 Winds, Archanysts, maybe a more aggressive spellhai variant with Blood rage Mask, all things that can benefit not only simply from triggers but from the sort of tempo plays that Vortex enables that otherwise might have been too slow or at too mana inefficient spots on your curve.

This is not to say Iā€™m stating Vortex is this super powerful card and most are wrong not to run it, but rather that there is far more nuance to it than most give it credit for and a good deal of sysnergy and unexplored decks to be made available in no small part due to ā€œunplayableā€ cards such as Mana Vortex.

I hope this gives you a small insight into the rambling mess that is my mind but itā€™s definitely a concept Iā€™ll be pushing and exploring more myself in the time to come.

PS: Next up, why Kaleos is a better controlling general than Reva and how most players use him wrong :wink:

3 Likes
#8

:no_mouth: Still patiently waiting for the explanation of how to use Kaleos properly

#9

Any Songhai deck necessary to use many cards. Since nerf effect not draw card, so itā€™s useless.
I think if itā€™s 1 mana cost and draw card, itā€™s useful.

#10

Maybe with blue conjurer to puke out minions in conjunction with koan?

#11

You sir just gave me some semblance of an idea

#12

To make Mana Vortex more popular, they need a consistent card draw engine. Maybe one that costs 2-mana? Maybe 1/3 stats? Maybe one that puts a token in your action bar with each spell you cast?

2 Likes
#13

How about a 1/4 ā€œwhenever you cast a spell, put a phenix fire in your action barā€ would be balanced kappa.

2 Likes
#14

Hey if that cost 9 mana I wouldnā€™t have a problem with it.

#15

Try to get @kingw as friend ingame and watch his matches, there are also some videos and a lot of threads.

#16

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