Sorry, but personally I don’t really like any of those ideas for a new tribe. Too complicated and convoluted for a game which is still (despite the description consistency issue) very mechanically tight and elegant at its core.
I still agree that Illusions should not be Arcanysts tho.
The issue with circulus is it’s draw, not the subtype it spawns. If I come of as pedantic it’s because the proposed changes would do very little to nothing in addressing the flaws with the card. Both circ and conjurer are cards that see play in everything from within their tribe to slotting in in mechs and/or control lists.
So yes, changing the subtype does indeed remove the synergy with owlbeast…which ultimately won’t deter anyone from running either of these cards, even in tandem with each other.
But this is clearly a debate for another thread.
Tldr
OP’s suggested change removes any interaction between circulus and owlbeast sage, which naturally reduces the power level of these cards in their respective archetypes, however it is highly unlikely that such changes would have any long term affects on the faction or the lists they see play in, thus imo making such changes mostly cosmetic and largely redundant.
Exactly - this is a debate for another thread. Basically, I agree with you, I, too, think that there are more serious issues to do with Circulus and Van draw etc. But this is a debate about whether Illusions should be Arcanysts or not. You don’t think it’s a priority, you’ve made your point (more than once actually), but suggesting that people end a debate just because there’s another one to be had that you think is more important than this one… comes across as a bit odd?
I do believe that cheap global removal in this game that offers nearly no downsides will always be problematic. But the issue was multiplied when vanar in particular was rewarded with even more tempo removal cards and was being benefited for using these cheap removal cards by in turn growing their own board presence.
I am fairly certain that if Songhai for example was the only Arcanyst faction noone would be this irritated because of the factions lack of tempo removal. So that would mean I could also build a board presence and be able to position myself accordingly to counter their arcanyst. But right now vanar can usually just eliminate your board while building theirs or freeze your units to make the game uninteractive.
I also do believe that changing the tribal of illusions will lower the power level of our current variation of arcanyst vanar however but not by much.
As for suggestions go I think that having an illusion tribe that revolves around secrets/traps and other gimmicks would be interesting and would inspire more thinking in a turn. These would be my submissions.
3 mana
5/2
Dying Wish: Give +2/+2 to all nearby minions
4 mana
4/4
Opening Gambit: Place two corrupted mana tiles.
Corrupted mana tile: Gain +2 mana and deal 3 damage to the unit. (Would appreciate help with wording)
7 mana
5/7
Provoke.
Next turn your opponent’s cards cost health instead of mana.
2 mana
2/2
Corrupt an active mana tile
9 mana spell
Your general gains attack and health equal to the enemy general’s.
5 mana
3/5
Opening gambit: Gain the ability of an enemy minion.
6 mana
2/3
Opening Gambit: All illusions transform into random enemy minions.
This was just me spitballing, would consider all suggestions.
Well @ everyone who mentioned circulus draw being a problem, as you all said, is a huge problem in my opinion too but since this has been brought up in other threads I was trying a different approach to at least weaken what they provide and change something, in this case illusions, being Arcanyst.
@anon62818569
I agree and hope they at least mention balance changes for current and future issues/expansions
@thedandygiraffe and anyone interested
I’ll create another thread on how illusion tribes would work without being too confusing or being too chaotic and would love to hear your constructive criticism there. (Might be a week due to work)
I feel (mind you that I’m only in gold) that arcane tribes are annoying, but not that difficult to counter. As soon as I see vanar popping an arcaynist, I hold on to my removal/despell cards and have no problem dealing with threats. Sometimes the cards screw me, but they’ve largely been good at stopping the build up. Amongst other things, I’ve found that Songhai burn works really well against pure vanar arcanyst (when combined with predictive positioning).
Yeah, I think it’s the difference between gold and higher ranks. A decent Arcanyst Van will put enough threats on board so that you can’t really counter all of them with dispel/removal (unless you run Van as well).
Songhai burn works, because in Duelyst the default strategy to counter any meta-dominating deck is to play more aggressively. That’s why Burnhorn is so good in the current meta, that’s why we’re having something of a swarm revival etc.
Has anyone considered the idea of an illusion being more of a spell-like entitiy rather than a being with a physical body? I always thought it weird that you would have an illusion (which is a distortion of the senses) with a physical body rather than just something that your mind perceives wrongly, similar to a mirage or hallucination. The implications of having a…thing… with no body being able to have an effect on physical beings would be a pretty interesting concept as opposed to having something just summoned.
To reiterate in the context of Duelyst the game, you could have illusions exist and act as any minion does (living, dying, killing, etc…) except, they’d “dissipate” or desummon upon the dispelling of your general (technically your own illusions would have to dissipate as well considering that they’d be a result of a spell as well and since you’re dispelling yourself…yeah harder to explain than I thought). That way, you’d promote the different uses of dispel and would force players to determine whether they’d use the dispel to get rid of enemy illusions or the source of said illusions, a choice I’d find more interesting given that dispelling a field of illusions now does nothing, but leave 2/1’s and sadness (unless you have aoe).
That might just be me being salty towards Faie arcanyst though
Now that you’ve said it, having the illusions disappear when dispelled (so kinda like the walls, but with no movement restriction) is a neat idea. And it would nerf arcanyst Van a bit, seeing as you could use your dispels much more efficiently. Not sure about dispelling the general tho.
That’s jut me trying to add a new mechanic onto the game, think nothing of it. Yeah, having the illusions act like wallish minions would be cool
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