Magmar changes suggestion


#1

I am fully ok if some factions are being more common at times, but i believe that magmar issue is different. Magmar faction is fun to play as and has hard decisions to make, but some cards are superior to those of other factions’s ones.

The card that causes the most problems is Thumping wave. It gives +5 attack to any minion and at the end of turn turns it into 3/3 battle pet. The problem with this card is its extreme versatility. When you are ahead you can use this card to close up the game. When enemy has stronger minion,you can remove it at a cost of 3 health. And the final point is that you can use it to buff elucidator and hit enemy general for 10 hp. If you do it twice that equals 20 damage meaning that without any healing their general is dead.

I suggest change this card to SET minions attack to 5. Dont know about battle pet though.

Second problem is Vaath’s BBS. This thing gives enourmous health trade advantage and ability to trade with minions. Even in late game minions dont have enough health to survive 1 hit of Vaath. So vaath’s weakness is supposed to be aggro decks, but i doubt that vaath with 1-2 earth spheres is meant to crush any control deck and minionbased aggro decks are dealt with by plasma storm,makantor and earth sister.

I suggest his BBS to only give attack on either his or opponets’s turn to decrease his defence or make minion aggression usefull.

At last i want to talk about Makantor. I like its ability but i think it has too few counterplay.
I would like to see makantor have “Cant move effect” aswel.

I dont think that these changes will make Magmar underpowered but rather more balanced.What do you think about it? Let me know your thoughts.


#2

May i ask for your rank and your time spent in duelyst? Because with these changes each and every Magmar deck would be trash tier, and its not even like Magmar really is prevalent in the current meta, and that does lead me to the conclusion that you don’t really have much experience, at least it seems so.

Thumping wave and makantor are basically magmars only really strong cards right now, and the only way magmar stays alive in the fast and aggressive meta atm, and Vaaths BBS is good but nothing near overpoerwred, it usually only goes to 3 or 4 at most anyways, which is usefull for clearing early and midgame minions but i don’t see how it is anywhere close being op. Not to mention that those 2 cards are the primary ranged answers magmar posseses and losing them would make their spellhai matchup way worse.

TLDR: if you wanna kill magmar, these changes are appropriate. In a vacuum, makantor needs to be reworked along with all other rush minions at some point.


#3

Im currently rank 2 if thats what matters. The point im making isnt that magmar is op as hell. I sut want minion based decks to have a chance and i dont think that 10 damage out of novhere is healty or interactive. As i said i dont want ALL these changes to have place.


#4

Magmar is fine.


#5

As much arguments as it gets, huh?


#6

I always make my replies proportional to the quality of the thread I’m replying in :slight_smile:


#7

If it is prevalent enough, I would run a dispel to deal with Vaath’s ability. Honestly, it did not come up frequently enough that I found it problematic. Should I see Vaath more frequently and get into long drawn out games frequently enough, then I would consider it.

The suggestions for the cards: I have not been bursted with thumping wave yet, though I recognize the potential. I think that priced at 3 things are relatively fair though. I guess they can do a pretty sick combination for 9 mana, but by then you should have access to equally powerful combinations. I disagree on the makantor being changed to a glorified rock. The card is strong, but can be played around without too many issues. Again, I run the 2/4 forcefield that disables rush. Works wonders against players with that strategy.


#8

I hear what you saying and i know about 2/4 forcefield minion. You might not agree with my argument but 2 attack isnt much in case of natural selection. And being only 2 mana it still can be fit with elucidator and thumping wave.

Makantor is the card that gives immidiate value and often deals 8 damage to your general as it always tries to target enemy general to be left with 4/2 threat on board.4 attack taunt minions arent quite common and dont fit in most decks. I dont fully deny makantor value, i just want to give an ability to protect your general from it.


#9

I think Magmar has always been a little bit on the odd side as far as balance goes. They have usually had a bunch of underwhelming cards, then a few extremely strong cards to balance them out. Yeah, they end up with some cards that are extremely strong, but it makes up for them having so many bad cards.


#10

That’s probably the thing. I’m a Magmar main and I sometimes feel guilty for wrecking my opponent by summoning two Makantors in a row. However, I then realise that most Magmar midgame cards are underwhelming at the moment, which makes me more comfortable when recovering thanks to Makantors. I would like the faction to be more balanced overall, but I think Makantors and Thumping Wave are what makes the faction work at the moment. The faction is bursty, but that’s how it stays alive. Nerfing either of these two cards is going to destroy Magmars.


#11

Yeah those 2 cards are definitely carrying the faction. Taygette used to be the #1 complaint around here but nobody plays her after the -1HP nerf. I still think she a very strong card especially with the introduction of battle pets, but nobody really seems to be playing her these days.


#12

I run 3x Taygete in my Midrange Magmar build and she works wonders. It typically draws a lot of attention from the opponent, who performs sub-optimal plays to remove her as soon as possible. She transforms enemy battle pets in time bombs and has a crazy sinergy with Diretide Frenzy. I love the card.


#13

Nerf rush and Magmar is fine.


#14

Magmar is played a lot for two simple reasons:

  1. It’s fun, even if it’s not the strongest/best faction.

  2. It has one of the most diverse sets of viable builds.

It is arguably the most “functional” faction specifically BECAUSE it is often played even though people know it’s not at the top of the meta. This should be what the design of other factions strives for, as opposed to dismantling Magmar and making it unappealing (which is what most of the OP’s suggestions would do).


#15

magmar is totaly fine you simply need to slow them donw a bit and be a step ahead and gg ez win


#16

I’ve been seeing a lot of complaining about Magmar but I have no idea why, they’re not the weakest faction but they’re a far cry from being anywhere near the top.

Slightly annoyed and flippant post, beware.

I’ll deal with some of the more common ones:

Makantor: A more expensive Holy Immolation with more reach. You can even do it out of hand with Slo + Holy Immolation for 4. For 6 you get a cool 2 drop with it.

Out of Hand Burst: Songhai is worse, way, way way worse. This doesn’t mean Magmar’s isn’t a problem but by the time you’re playing Elucidator + Thumping Wave the game’s already at 7 mana. In the current meta, that’s a long game and against other factions chances are you would’ve been dead anyway. Also it’s not like You haven’t been killed by Argeon BBS’ing 2 tigers before either.

Healing: Magmar has one healing card, Earth Sphere. They get utterly wrecked in the healing department by Abyssian. I’d rather have Kelaino, for example, in Magmar than Earth Sphere if I’m being honest, way better value.

Vaath: People do know you can dispel this right? I mean, it’s the enemy general dealing damage to himself by hitting your minions. Let him do that for a turn or two and then dispel him, leaving him badly damaged and toothless.


#18

If the answer to the 2/4 forcefield anti-rush unit is in their hand on top of a thumping wave and an elucidator, then I would say they played that well. I could play around that by playing out some 1 or 0 power units depending on my faction, or buff the 2/4 forcefield unit if I am Lyonar for instance. There is some counterplay there, and the 2/4 forcefield minion is far more useful than a binary answer.

At the end of the day, we are talking about 10 damage from hand at a high cost that even hurts the player who sent it out. And it is conditional burst (you need to be near the opponent’s general). I think this is powerful, but by no means unfair.

The makantor is a very expensive unit all things considered. I think it is fair that it represents another potential 4 damage for its 6 mana investment. I would rather play against this than say the Abyssian rush legendary unit. Truth be told, I think the issue has more to do with the power of Rush (haste is probably the best keyword looking at tournament result that a card can have in any card game). That said, I still maintain that 8 damage from a six mana minion, of which 4 can be avoided easily, is fair game.


#19

Makantor: I do see a problem with holy immolation aswell but holy immolation DOES NOT give continious value(4/2 that NEEDS to be dealt with) and requires a setup. You can just occupie the best holy immolation spaces but its impossible to do the same with makator. THATS why i suggest to give it can’t move instead of decreasing stats as its card advantage compared to holly immolation is 3 to 1.

Burst: Songhai’s burst is one time thing.It is fully countered by heal while magmar have minions left after the combat and you need to heal AND remove threats with usuing minions which again results in card disadvantage. Or you can remove it with your general and heal achiving nothing in case of health.

Healing: i have no problem with earth sphere. the point im making is that it is PROACTIVE HEALING CARD due to the combination with vaath BBS.

Dispell: Again,card and mana disadvantage to handle it,while magmar have already gotten their value.


#20

I have played hundreds of Vaath games in the last two months. I could count on one hand the number of times I have played a Makantor and had it still be around the turn after it was played. It needs to be “dealt with”, fine, but by the time you can put it on the board this can usually be done very easily.

Playing Holy Immolation on a damaged SIlverguard Knight, for example, does the same damage and actually results in a stickier, more useful minion as a result. For 2 less mana. And as the nerf to Zen’rui reminds us, 6 mana is pretty slow. Flash can speed this up, but then that’s another card and in most cases the Makantor dies instantly.

If you want to nerf Makantor you need to start with a valid expression of what it represents. And making it unable to move is not nerfing it, but rather destroying it.


#21

In the past month I think I’ve seen a nerf thread for every faction, except Vetruvian I think, I want to refer to the ‘nerf threads here really need a nerf’ thread on this one. You know, sometimes losing sucks and it feels like you can’t do much against it, and if you happen to have a streak against one single faction you’ll get sick of facing them, it happens, but just stand back and think what would happen if that faction lost those things that make them strong, they would be garbage. Factions need incredibly strong cards like Makantor to be able to turn a disadvantage around. Just think rationally, and realize that every faction has things that makes them strong, but is it really overpowered?

And Raqyee has no chill, holy