Enough for me to say that this epansion got me to give up on playing lyonar deck. I Think right now on the meta lyonnar may be the weakest faction becasuse lack so much other factions have.
Sorry that become huge, but i needed to get of my chest.
Sorry if this sounds pessimistic but the thread was about the status of the faction right now and check out how many s-rank games are been played with Lyonnar decks?
Lyonnar can’t match Magmar on building value, its minions are more expensive for similar power or weaker for the same price.Lyonnar should get in quality (abilities and stuff), but usually do note get enough to beat the stronger magmar. I Could do multi-comparisons on how Lyonnar get the weaker end for some things. Lets stick to the now. The Lyonnar Tiles are really weak. They could heal 2 HP at least to get descent. Its not that 1 heal is not decent, but Exhuming sand gives you a new body for every drop you make. Thats a whole new body 2/2 a lot more value than heal 1. Its worst if compared with Primal Flourish gain +2/2 its waaay batter than heal 1, the condition is the same ( stay atop of the tile), but the value build is much better, better gain attack and 2 resistance than heal 1 if you are injured anymays, and if you stay there you keep healing only if you need while grow is indefinitely, just not fair again in comparison with magmar power to build value and bulk creatures. Even if Lyonnar should not be compared to magmar on what magmar does best, what lyonnar is supposed to do?Heal,?Ok. And does Lyonnar doing this can even in value or tempo with the competition?Whay than can at leats heal better or as well as the other bulk? But whats the advantage of heal 1 if instead you can get +2 resistanc, that comparison woul be disavantageous alone, but lets throw +2 offense to just to be shore. No way.If lyonar could heal 2 in its tile it would not be abusive even considering to heal the general. And considering the best advantage is with multiple instances of it in helayonnar decks, kicking light chaser, sunforge, sunriser and sister sterope twice or tree times avery end of turn can be usefull, but outside that the tile is weak and if could heal two or 3 would not affect the tempo. Even heal tree woul not be to much, after all it would be a big impact on the game heal your general that much that easy, and your creatures would get really hard to knock down, but THAT would impact the game, are all those iron dervishes for free every time you summon a creature not an impact? The kind that you can build a deck around and worth it? Why sugar coat the pill if plyng Lyonnar is simply not giving you this kind of impact for real. What if they could heal not only reatures on the tile but in all nearby spaces? It would still count as only one healing ( like blast and frenzy only count as “deling damage” once). It would be impacting? Yes? It would be unffair? No, not more than making all your creatures grow or gaining 3 or 4 bônus creatures per summon. Not more than making avery tile rise as a 4/4 with your bloodborn spell, not more than “your general cant die” or “resummon all creatures killed by your general under your control”… things that are abusive ( but can be countered) are al over the place, in most factions being played, lyonnar simply have none of those. It must carefully build sinergies (mostly thru healing) , with condtional combos and hope to not get a removal in a turn. If Lyonnar is suppose to be the healers lets at least make it heals in the same rhitym as other factions do theis stuff, not once a turn with a creature if combined with another, but some massive “fully heal all your creatures and give each atack bonus equal to their healths” costinh 8 in a legendary card…they had no shame to give such to abyssia. More than once.
The tile is only usefull as a niche card for sinergy purposes and has another problem, in order the get the tiles you need to use its four making cards and none of then are good.
The cleric is the most viable, the removal is redundant and condtional, so as the buff, and the other costs 7. So the chances of you have lets say tree tiles on midgame are not great and you still need to manage positioning damaged units on top of then to finish the turn so the healyonnar sinergies would kick in. Lets say a Sunriser in position, a sunforge on top of one and Zy’ran on top of another. Thats the best case scenario to gain +3 attack and damage 6 around enemies at end o turn, but how often? You could speculate on more than that but would not that be an already won game?
Again, comparing to magmar, if Lyonnar could create a 2x2 area were all creatures gains +2/+2 it would be a frenzy, a boost to several decks(zoo?), magamar decks may not use it because they already got anough grow, if even this weak tile could be created cheaply in packs of 2x2 it would work helping to control an area, but again, the lyonnar get weaker cards to use a weaker ability and only sinks deeper on meta. Magmar could add +1/+1 or +2 attack, but hey its magmar, whay not making it three?
All cards (except by ouroboro and judicator) that i see that would improve my deck were not lyonar, the vanar ranged with drakes was excelent, what lyonar got? A Zeal ranged or, a conditioned ranged when ranged is suppose to lay on a far corner of the board not beside the general. Really sometimes looks like the card was designed carefully to be just enough condicioned to not work or worth. I Tryed to make a ranged lyonnar and when lyonnar finally gets a ranged unit i freagging hated, i’m supposed to trade arrow whistler of captain hank for this? Even Rogue warden is better, cost one more but the ranged is not condtioned and one is 3/4 and the other 4/3, great improvement -_- . For one less mana Vanar got a sentinel 1/3 that gives you endless 4/4 with flying ( again what kind of comparison is that supposed to be?)
Also love wasteland wraith ( a global selective destruction for 4 mana, only need to last one round and you could put on aegis barrier, too bad is vetruvian), but instead we’ve got aperyons claim, that cost 7, is tied to an area ( big, but not global) and also affects your own minions . How is that for comparison, even if huge cost , limited area and hitting your own creatures was a good deal how do you benefit from 9 tiles? Do we have 9 injured minions to trigger that healing effects? Not mentioning that is seems a lot “win more” any situation were you could destroy that much creatures and still got any heal triggers to activate in orther to take advantage of those tiles.
In general there are several good aditions to other factions and neutral, but Lyonnar didan’t got sentinel but a tile, the weaker tile by far, only usefull in one deck archetype and with worst cards to sink it; It did not got punch, still lacks that “might” card envied by the other factions like Death Knell,Obliterate, enfeeble and others, it always seem to got something a little more conditional or not so impactating. Did anyone considered that maybe Variax was a bit too powerfull? The only card Lyonnar has with such a profile is excelsius, wich is a creature, can be removed, coutered, dispelled (and is also attached to the hellyonar deck), death knell and Variax, grand master embla make their damage by opening gambit, and the damage oulives them, Lavaslasher and Makantor also act imediatly. So even on the category for “over powerfull legendary cards that can win a game instantly” lyonnar meta is weaker.
I think they just dont know what to do with the faction, outside of helyonnar decks they seem not know what to create for the faction as archetypes, so they do things all over the place that most players can’t benefit from. Its pretty clear what magmar or songhai does, so create new cards for it is easy and measure its game impact too. Lyonnar is lacking some motto to its cards that is always usefull (like card buying for magmar or deathwacth for abyssia) outside of healling nothing else adds value with sinergy , its unclear if its creature removal, control thru imunnities and immortality(forcefield, ressurection) or if they would come up with some new option ( like songhai have tree ways, ranged, back steb, spell deck ). If they see zoo lyonar or tempo as archetypes they should know that nothing was given to it. And if the tiles should be the new thing, first, obvioulsy theres no way one expansion will give this tile the uses of shadow creep, but to be a new thing archetype it should do so in some time, and now its not even good, its the worst of all for tiles, most conditional, with worst cards and less options. Maybe with some sinergy to one niche.
I Hope they Hear the complaints and think seriously of strenghten the faction on the next one or two expansions (they really helped vetruvian on this one) because if we dont start talk about it cleary no one will. Lyonnar is being completely smashed on the meta for quite a few time and they need to fix it.
Again sorry for this. Maybe i should create a thread. And sorry for my english
.